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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    They are both better players. Just look at the numbers. Randle is better than both of em.
    We can revisit this when theyíre all deeper into their careers. At this point we just have our opinions. Numbers donít tell the whole story - especially with an undersized C like randle. I personally doubt he ever wins a championship - especially as the 2nd/3rd option. He can be exposed on defence.
    Both sabonis and randle are also not as versatile as siakam. I believe siakam can fit in literally any team and make them better, I donít feel the same way about the other 2. You need to have a role/hole for them or they wonít bring value. I can elaborate on this thought if Iím being unclear. I donít feel like Iím explaining this very clearly, but you might get where Iím coming from.

    Regardless of our opinions on how to rank them - donít you think sabonis and randle are headed towards a max contract?

    My whole thing is a top 5/6ish PF is a max player in this league. Thatís what the market dictates.

    It would be great if he was locked into a minimum contract, but I would rather have siakam being paid market value than to not have siakam at all.
    Last edited by ChongInc.; 04-30-2021 at 11:44 AM.

  2. #122
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    I know this is a cop out on actual discussion, but I'm taking any analysis of the Tampa Bay Raptors with a grain of salt. I just feel like 82 away games, living in a hotel for a year and contracting Covid has to have had some level of affect on the overall performance of the year. I agree that this year Sabonis and Randle have been better, but I optimistically see next year as being a different animal altogether.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    We can revisit this when theyíre all deeper into their careers. At this point we just have our opinions. Numbers donít tell the whole story - especially with an undersized C like randle. I personally doubt he ever wins a championship - especially as the 2nd/3rd option. He can be exposed on defence.
    Both sabonis and randle are also not as versatile as siakam. I believe siakam can fit in literally any team and make them better, I donít feel the same way about the other 2. You need to have a role/hole for them or they wonít bring value. I can elaborate on this thought if Iím being unclear. I donít feel like Iím explaining this very clearly, but you might get where Iím coming from.

    Regardless of our opinions on how to rank them - donít you think sabonis and randle are headed towards a max contract?

    My whole thing is a top 5/6ish PF is a max player in this league. Thatís what the market dictates.

    It would be great if he was locked into a minimum contract, but I would rather have siakam being paid market value than to not have siakam at all.
    They are both better don't be a homer bro. If Randle gets a max he certainly will be more deserving.

    Have people been watching the games at all, does Siakam decrease in production over the last two seasons not concern you any because everyone has taken a step forward. Freddy was having a great year before he got injured. OG has shown alot of growth. Siakam is the only taking steps backwards.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Raptor View Post
    I know this is a cop out on actual discussion, but I'm taking any analysis of the Tampa Bay Raptors with a grain of salt. I just feel like 82 away games, living in a hotel for a year and contracting Covid has to have had some level of affect on the overall performance of the year. I agree that this year Sabonis and Randle have been better, but I optimistically see next year as being a different animal altogether.
    I agree that this has been a tough season. I also think that it took to long to attain a couple of decent bigs which really hurt us this year.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Iíve been thinking along the same lines. And after thinking that I was like ok who starts in the back court? FVV & Trent jr or FVV & Norm? Or would we go small with FVV, Norm, Trent jr, OG, Siakam?

    I think Norm shows his worth in Portland come playoff time. If the season ended today and Norm walked I donít think theyíd care because it hasnít looked like he is the best fit there. But then again we havenít seen playoff norm over there yet.
    I think it is the other way around. Portland isn't impressing Powell.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I think it is the other way around. Portland isn't impressing Powell.
    lol they could impress eachother if they make a good run, but Portland hasnt looked great as of late.

    I know you weren't crazy about him, but would you take him back for the right deal and retain Trent Jr?

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I know you were crazy about him, but would you take him back for the right deal and retain Trent Jr?
    no. i think ppl overrated him because he got counting stats but don't realize he was getting easy stats from Nurse's system. he's going to make 20+M.

    I think Powell has more leverage in that relationship. Portland is screwed if he leaves.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    lol they could impress eachother if they make a good run, but Portland hasnt looked great as of late.

    I know you weren't crazy about him, but would you take him back for the right deal and retain Trent Jr?
    Depends who we draft.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    They are both better don't be a homer bro. If Randle gets a max he certainly will be more deserving.

    Have people been watching the games at all, does Siakam decrease in production over the last two seasons not concern you any because everyone has taken a step forward. Freddy was having a great year before he got injured. OG has shown alot of growth. Siakam is the only taking steps backwards.
    Weíll see. Lots of career runway left to compare these comps.
    Siakams career clearly has a head start with MIP and a ring. I definitely think siakam will have better careers than both because of his defence. The other 2 are know to be very poor defenders.

  10. #130
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    But you are admitting that the other all star caliber PFís in the 4th-6th best in the league range will all be expecting max contracts too?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Weíll see. Lots of career runway left to compare these comps.
    Siakams career clearly has a head start with MIP and a ring. I definitely think siakam will have better careers than both because of his defence. The other 2 are know to be very poor defenders.
    Randle isn't a "very poor" defender anymore. Sabonis has never been a "very poor" defender.

  12. #132
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    Randle definitely gets paid like an all-star. He has led that Knicks team all season. Becoming a 40+% 3pt shooter is HUGE....and playing for a coach that likes to play his top guys a lot of minutes (which boosts his per game stats across the board) is also helping him too.

    The separation between Randle and Siakam right now is the jumper. ...and the one thing that I think this season is going to effect them most, is their shooting from distance. Tired legs wreck shooting percentages, and these guys have been playing off fumes for months.

    Also, I wouldn't say Siakam has gone backwards for two years though S&W...... I would argue (strongly) that for most of last season he had actually shown another big step of improvement.... right after winning MIP the year before. Even with his struggles in bubble he still shot 36% from deep on the season (essentially the same as the year before) and had career highs in PPG, RPG, APG, SPG and BPG. ...and FT%. The only thing that dipped was his 2pt FG%, and that was likely due to a MASSIVE shift in roles. No longer were people making plays for him to finish. Now the ball was in his hands (most of the time) and he was being asked to handle it and make plays for others. So not only did he become the #1 option, he also had to adapt to an entirely new way of getting off his offense.

    This year is a wash to me...completely. 30 different starting lineups. 0 home games. Covid outbreak on the team.
    The one time they had a healthy roster for any length of time and played their main guys that had some chemistry they still looked like a very good basketball team. If they had Birch and Gillespie from day 1 instead of Baynes and Len, I think this season would look a lot different.

    All this season did for me is allow OG to grow and have a chance to earn the contract they gave him over the next few years. It allowed Flynn to grow and get some real meaningful minutes in 4th quarters (and now starting games) to see what they may have in him if Lowry leaves (or if they keep Lowry and trade FVV) . It allowed Boucher to burst onto the scene and for a guy like Yuta to earn a spot in the rotation next year.

    I actually like this 10 man rotation:

    Birch/Gillespie
    Siakam/Boucher
    OG/Watanabe
    GTJ/FVV
    Lowry/Flynn



    and on top of that they should be able to add 2 or 3 players in the draft.

    I'll take that with a regular schedule and half the schedule at home...

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Randle isn't a "very poor" defender anymore. Sabonis has never been a "very poor" defender.
    Do you have those guys on siakams level defensively? An undersized C and a Tyrannosaurus rex that are often targeted in crunch time.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    But you are admitting that the other all star caliber PFís in the 4th-6th best in the league range will all be expecting max contracts too?
    I think they will get paid in accordance to their performance. If weíre going by this year they would both be more deserving than Siakam as both are having stronger seasons.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 04-30-2021 at 06:26 PM.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Do you have those guys on siakams level defensively? An undersized C and a Tyrannosaurus rex that are often targeted in crunch time.
    They both have a better defensive rating for 2021 than Siakam.

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