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Thread: God and Guns

  1. #1
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    God and Guns

    I came across this opinion piece written by the former president of the Chicago Theological Seminary in which she offers a religious (Christian) response to the notion of guns as “a God-given right” (a position articulated by such luminaries as NRA president Wayne LaPierre and Texas Congressman Chip Roy).

    She opens the editorial with the following:

    “The gun carnage in this country — seen just in the last few days in the spa shootings in the Atlanta area and a mass shooting at the King Soopers grocery store in Colorado — is not only a horrific social problem, it is also a theological problem, even a theological crisis.”

    She goes on to say, “God did not give Americans guns. The gun manufacturers did. To say otherwise is heresy — that is, to strongly depart from the Christian faith.”

    And yet, she notes later that “the single greatest indicator of opposition to gun legislation reform” is identification as a Christian nationalist “that is, the merging of right-wing religious and civil ideologies.”

    Assuming there is a God (presumably a Christian one), is she justified in calling it heresy?

    https://religionnews.com/2021/03/24/...spa-shootings/

  2. #2
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    I guess I should have figured that this would be too unsettling to serve as a viable topic for discussion.

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    You raise an interesting question. Is it a God given right to have fund? If so, how would we know since to first gun was invented long after the Bible, which many (not me) believe to be the word of God.

    How can having a gin be a God given right when “Guns” dont appear in the Bible? Or is this a straw man?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    You raise an interesting question. Is it a God given right to have fund? If so, how would we know since to first gun was invented long after the Bible, which many (not me) believe to be the word of God.

    How can having a gin be a God given right when “Guns” dont appear in the Bible? Or is this a straw man?
    Depends on the church you go to I suppose. We quit going to ours since most of the members are somewhat radicalized on the God, Guts, Guns and Country path. It has been hard to understand some of posts made by people we thought we knew for years.

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    I think the argument is promulgated on the assertion that self-defense is a god-given right (presumably it is a right, god-given or otherwise, or we’d have a whole lot of trouble justifying — among a whole lot of other acts of violence — our many wars).

    So, I supposed that if you believe in a god and you believe that your rights are derived from that god, then the right to self-defense is a no brainer.

    Where do guns come in — that’s the sticking point. They may be used for self-defense but does that make possession of one a [god-given] right?

    But what also interests me is that one side calls “heresy.”
    Last edited by Crovash; 04-18-2021 at 10:07 AM.

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    A true christian should be anti guns. Period. There's not one argument they can make for owning a weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    A true christian should be anti guns. Period. There's not one argument they can make for owning a weapon.
    Actually no. Gawd did give us supremacy over the birds of the air and the beasts of the field. But killing another of Gawd’s children is a mortal sin. Those that facilitate that like the NRA should burned as witches and heretics.

    See? Pretty straightforward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    A true christian should be anti guns. Period. There's not one argument they can make for owning a weapon.
    If so, I guess that would make for a shitload of ersatz christians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    A true christian should be anti guns. Period. There's not one argument they can make for owning a weapon.
    Really? Jesus wasn't a vegetarian.
    Guns aren't just used on people...and Christians have the same right to self-defense as anyone else.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Really? Jesus wasn't a vegetarian.
    Not being sarcastic here, is this actually true?

    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Guns aren't just used on people...
    Now this is true, for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    ...and Christians have the same right to self-defense as anyone else.
    Doesn’t this part of the Sermon on the Mount tend to counter this?

    38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
    39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
    40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

    EDIT: I am told the the Sermon on the Mount is apparently agreed upon by many experts as the most verifiably accurate aspect of Jesus’ life and ministry.
    Last edited by Crovash; 04-19-2021 at 01:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Not being sarcastic here, is this actually true?

    Now this is true, for sure.



    Doesn’t this part of the Sermon on the Mount tend to counter this?

    38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
    39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
    40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

    EDIT: I am told the the Sermon on the Mount is apparently agreed upon by many experts as the most verifiably accurate aspect of Jesus’ life and ministry.
    Well, we don't know what he actually ate himself, for the most part. However, several stories from the Bible he is in involve either helping people fish or feeding people fish. One would assume he had no issues with people consuming meat given that and the animal sacrifices in the Old Testament are further indication that killing and consuming animals for sustinence wasn't disallowed.

    Yeah, I don't know. I mean obviously weapons have been used to defend people throughout the Bible.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Really? Jesus wasn't a vegetarian.
    Guns aren't just used on people...and Christians have the same right to self-defense as anyone else.
    You're right. However, in 2021 the amount of people that require a gun for hunting is absolutely minimal. The ground beef at the super market is already dead.

    But for the self defense thing, christians are taught to turn the other cheek. I get it, most christians only want to be christians when it's time to get into heaven, very few actually live by the "word of god".

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    But for the self defense thing, christians are taught to turn the other cheek. I get it, most christians only want to be christians when it's time to get into heaven, very few actually live by the "word of god".
    I suppose the reason why Christianity got watered down over the years was that it was far, far too difficult (and rare) to live a truly christ-like life. I mean how can a religion survive in the real world if people actually loved their enemies and turned the other cheek and showed mercy, etc.?

    I suppose it is not all that different in other faiths. The demands of classical Therevada Buddhism are very difficult, so other forms and doctrines — less onererous — developed in order to spread the influence of the religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    You're right. However, in 2021 the amount of people that require a gun for hunting is absolutely minimal. The ground beef at the super market is already dead.

    But for the self defense thing, christians are taught to turn the other cheek. I get it, most christians only want to be christians when it's time to get into heaven, very few actually live by the "word of god".
    Hunting has to be required now?
    Do I need to get into the whole issue of the fact that, without culling some of the population of deer, etc, by hunting, those populations would be less healthy? We got rid of most of the predators that did that naturally.

    Again, self-defense doesn't mean shooting someone. But no, it's not 'most Christians' that only want to be Christians when it suits them. You can believe otherwise if you choose, that's your choice.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Hunting has to be required now?
    Do I need to get into the whole issue of the fact that, without culling some of the population of deer, etc, by hunting, those populations would be less healthy? We got rid of most of the predators that did that naturally.

    Again, self-defense doesn't mean shooting someone. But no, it's not 'most Christians' that only want to be Christians when it suits them. You can believe otherwise if you choose, that's your choice.
    Hunting for sport, should not be allowed anywhere in the world (sport fishing should also be banned). If you're not hunting for food, you should not be hunting. If (big if) populations need to be culled, then so be it. But that can be taken on politically rather than letting Joe deer hunter have access to a gun that he doesn't really need to have. But really, we should be stepping back from this stuff, let the predators repopulate and let it happen naturally. Here's a big hint for you. Humans are a small blip on the timeline of life on this planet. Prey and predators survived for millions of years without human intervention with guns to keep the populations healthy.

    If you think most christians really live like christians all the time, I got a bridge to sell you. They are christians on Sundays, Christmas, Easter and their death beds. And I know self defense doesn't mean shooting someone, but the title of the thread is "God and Guns". So we are talking specifically about guns, lol.

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