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  1. #16
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    He's playing out of position, he just isn''t an everyday SS. He was more than adequate defensively at 2nd, thats where they should have left him. Why screw with a 23 yr old kid coming off a top 10 MVP season hitting after hitting .278/.337/.535/.871 with 38hrs? thats a franchise cornerstone that you build around. Those numbers are better than Machado at the same age and not all that different from Tatis .292/.366./569 with 41hrs at the same age. Comparing the bats, not the defense

    I'd much rather figure out how to help him turn it around to be that franchise player he looked like in 17-19. He's way to young, talented, cheap and has showed to much just to be dumped at age 24... Even with the struggles you dont trade a player like Torres unless you are getting one hell of a haul back

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    He's playing out of position, he just isn''t an everyday SS. He was more than adequate defensively at 2nd, thats where they should have left him. Why screw with a 23 yr old kid coming off a top 10 MVP season hitting after hitting .278/.337/.535/.871 with 38hrs? thats a franchise cornerstone that you build around. Those numbers are better than Machado at the same age and not all that different from Tatis .292/.366./569 with 41hrs at the same age. Comparing the bats, not the defense

    I'd much rather figure out how to help him turn it around to be that franchise player he looked like in 17-19. He's way to young, talented, cheap and has showed to much just to be dumped at age 24... Even with the struggles you dont trade a player like Torres unless you are getting one hell of a haul back
    How is Torres playing out of position when he played ss throughout his minor league career ? While I do agree the smarter thing to do this off season would have been to move Torres to 2b and let dj walk , it was not because Torres was out of position at ss but because he wasnít a good enough short stop period. And with dj at 2b and voit the better defensive 1b than dj or Bruce was , and urshela better at 3b than at ss , what do you propose they do with Torres ?

    Here are current examples of players playing out of position , dj anywhere but at 2b , gio at ss , Bruce at 1b .
    Last edited by Posada20; 04-19-2021 at 09:34 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    How is Torres playing out of position when he played ss throughout his minor league career ? While I do agree the smarter thing to do this off season would have been to move Torres to 2b and let dj walk , it was not because Torres was out of position at ss but because he wasnít a good enough short stop period. And with dj at 2b and voit the better defensive 1b than dj or Bruce was , and urshela better at 3b than at ss , what do you propose they do with Torres ?

    Here are current examples of players playing out of position , dj anywhere but at 2b , gio at ss , Bruce at 1b .
    He was playing SS when he was 17-19, he had his TMJS, then he transitioned more to 2nd base. Alot can change speed, range ect during those developmental yrs. When Torres was a spec it was never a given that he would stick at SS, just that he had the arm and instincts to, there was always a high chance he ended up at 2nd or 3rd.

    Voit is not better than DJ defensively at 1st and its not close...

    I really dont know what you do with Torres, a couple more months of this and he'll be Sanchez 2.0. Like i said IMO, he's to young, cheap and talented to give up on at this point but short of putting him back at 2nd i don't know what you do.

    If you trade him now it will be for peanuts. The Yanks just aren't going to trade a player that has put up MVP type numbers in his last full season after struggling in 2020 and a couple weeks this yr. If they didn't move on from Sanchez no way do the walk away from Torres unless they get a huge return. With how he's playing right now they aren/t going to get that right now, so whats your plan for him

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    He was playing SS when he was 17-19, he had his TMJS, then he transitioned more to 2nd base. Alot can change speed, range ect during those developmental yrs. When Torres was a spec it was never a given that he would stick at SS, just that he had the arm and instincts to, there was always a high chance he ended up at 2nd or 3rd.

    Voit is not better than DJ defensively at 1st and its not close...

    I really dont know what you do with Torres, a couple more months of this and he'll be Sanchez 2.0. Like i said IMO, he's to young, cheap and talented to give up on at this point but short of putting him back at 2nd i don't know what you do.

    If you trade him now it will be for peanuts. The Yanks just aren't going to trade a player that has put up MVP type numbers in his last full season after struggling in 2020 and a couple weeks this yr. If they didn't move on from Sanchez no way do the walk away from Torres unless they get a huge return. With how he's playing right now they aren/t going to get that right now, so whats your plan for him
    I didnít say trade him now but if things keep going the way they are with Torres , there will be no other choice but to trade him because there is simply no other place to put him . You canít keep holding on to players at all costs just because of their bats , they already have that problem with andujar and Sanchez . And dj is not that much better at 1b than voit . Just because he won gold gloves at 2b it doesnt automatically mean he will be great at 1b . And look at how this team is doing without voit for just one month , you canít possibly want to move voit after this . Like it or not he is a spark plug in the line up .

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    I didnít say trade him now but if things keep going the way they are with Torres , there will be no other choice but to trade him because there is simply no other place to put him . You canít keep holding on to players at all costs just because of their bats , they already have that problem with andujar and Sanchez . And dj is not that much better at 1b than voit . Just because he won gold gloves at 2b it doesnt automatically mean he will be great at 1b . And look at how this team is doing without voit for just one month , you canít possibly want to move voit after this . Like it or not he is a spark plug in the line up .
    They have routinely taken Voit out late in games and replaced him defensively with DJ at 1st. If DJ wasnt much better there defensively, why is it when they need to prevent runs late they put DJ at 1st?

    IMO Torres is the much better and talented player, especially because of what he;s done at his age already, vs Sanchez and Andujar but i see your point.

    If Torres continues to play like this and the Yanks leave him there, then alot of this will be on them. I don't think, if we want any chance of winning this yr, you can leave him at SS all yr. If this continue's for another month i think they'll need to do something... If he plays like this all yr what he going to be worth trade wise? not much. at that point there is zero reason to trade him when he's still making minimal money. If this situation gets to the off season as is I'm not sure what the fix is? Sign Seager and make Torres the utility guy.

    At this point with what they look like without Voit, your right i'm not advoocating moving him right now. If he comes back and jump starts this team and they snap back to a top 3 offense i will stand completely corrected on Voit.

    That said, Voits still in that clubhouse everyday, being a part of that team. His voice has still been there, so im not sure how much of a difference he;s going to make up and down the lineup when he starts playing everyday.. I think the far bigger issue is coaching and leadership. IMO this team clearly hasn't performed for Boone, I don't think the respect him as anything more than a mouth piece. If we want to be real, this team hasn't played great since summer of 19. They backed into the playoffs that yr and were not good in the playoffs.

    IMO if they aren't playing much better by the end of the month the need to make a change. I also think that they should be looking for a new hitting coach also because whatever Thames is doing isn't working at all. This team is completely lost at the plate

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    They have routinely taken Voit out late in games and replaced him defensively with DJ at 1st. If DJ wasnt much better there defensively, why is it when they need to prevent runs late they put DJ at 1st?

    IMO Torres is the much better and talented player, especially because of what he;s done at his age already, vs Sanchez and Andujar but i see your point.

    If Torres continues to play like this and the Yanks leave him there, then alot of this will be on them. I don't think, if we want any chance of winning this yr, you can leave him at SS all yr. If this continue's for another month i think they'll need to do something... If he plays like this all yr what he going to be worth trade wise? not much. at that point there is zero reason to trade him when he's still making minimal money. If this situation gets to the off season as is I'm not sure what the fix is? Sign Seager and make Torres the utility guy.

    At this point with what they look like without Voit, your right i'm not advoocating moving him right now. If he comes back and jump starts this team and they snap back to a top 3 offense i will stand completely corrected on Voit.

    That said, Voits still in that clubhouse everyday, being a part of that team. His voice has still been there, so im not sure how much of a difference he;s going to make up and down the lineup when he starts playing everyday.. I think the far bigger issue is coaching and leadership. IMO this team clearly hasn't performed for Boone, I don't think the respect him as anything more than a mouth piece. If we want to be real, this team hasn't played great since summer of 19. They backed into the playoffs that yr and were not good in the playoffs.

    IMO if they aren't playing much better by the end of the month the need to make a change. I also think that they should be looking for a new hitting coach also because whatever Thames is doing isn't working at all. This team is completely lost at the plate
    torres is obviously not a ss his range is not good his arm strength is underwhelming and if hits bad all year that would be 2 bad seasons in a row.. it would be time to explore all possibilities in a trade..

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    They have routinely taken Voit out late in games and replaced him defensively with DJ at 1st. If DJ wasnt much better there defensively, why is it when they need to prevent runs late they put DJ at 1st?

    IMO Torres is the much better and talented player, especially because of what he;s done at his age already, vs Sanchez and Andujar but i see your point.

    If Torres continues to play like this and the Yanks leave him there, then alot of this will be on them. I don't think, if we want any chance of winning this yr, you can leave him at SS all yr. If this continue's for another month i think they'll need to do something... If he plays like this all yr what he going to be worth trade wise? not much. at that point there is zero reason to trade him when he's still making minimal money. If this situation gets to the off season as is I'm not sure what the fix is? Sign Seager and make Torres the utility guy.

    At this point with what they look like without Voit, your right i'm not advoocating moving him right now. If he comes back and jump starts this team and they snap back to a top 3 offense i will stand completely corrected on Voit.

    That said, Voits still in that clubhouse everyday, being a part of that team. His voice has still been there, so im not sure how much of a difference he;s going to make up and down the lineup when he starts playing everyday.. I think the far bigger issue is coaching and leadership. IMO this team clearly hasn't performed for Boone, I don't think the respect him as anything more than a mouth piece. If we want to be real, this team hasn't played great since summer of 19. They backed into the playoffs that yr and were not good in the playoffs.

    IMO if they aren't playing much better by the end of the month the need to make a change. I also think that they should be looking for a new hitting coach also because whatever Thames is doing isn't working at all. This team is completely lost at the plate
    Taking voit out late in games and putting dj there for 2 or 3 innings is alot different than starting dj every day at 1b so that they can move Torres to 2b . I am not convinced dj at his age still has the flexibility and range to play at 1b every day . And as for who to blame I think itís more than just Thames I think it goes higher up than him or Boone . I think Thames has bought into the analytics system like Boone has , and who is the one who went all in on analytics ????

  8. #23
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    Didnít Torres lose a bunch of weight? Maybe there is something there that we are missing.


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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chapin78 View Post
    Didnít Torres lose a bunch of weight? Maybe there is something there that we are missing.


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    After what happened with cano right after he left the Yankees , this wouldnít surprise me if it were true .

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    Taking voit out late in games and putting dj there for 2 or 3 innings is alot different than starting dj every day at 1b so that they can move Torres to 2b . I am not convinced dj at his age still has the flexibility and range to play at 1b every day . And as for who to blame I think itís more than just Thames I think it goes higher up than him or Boone . I think Thames has bought into the analytics system like Boone has , and who is the one who went all in on analytics ????
    Agree to disagree on the DJ Voit defensive thing.

    Like i said i don't know what the right realistic option is with Torres. Ideally they could trade him for a great starter and sign Seager but i don't think thats going to happen. I think the Yanks are much more invested in Torres, like they have been with Sanchez so i don't think they move him without getting what they want in return.

    Realistic options i don't believe include Cashman being fired, i just don't see Hal having the sack to so it. If the whole season goes to hell, maybe, maybe you see Cashman transition more to a Presidents role and maybe they bring in someone to run the day to day.

    Realistically i think the coach goes before the GM. I would love to see a different voice with a different philosophy brought in as GM, i just don't think its likely at the point. I think you would have to see multiple disaster yrs in a row for Hal to completely fire Cashman, realistically

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    After what happened with cano right after he left the Yankees , this wouldnít surprise me if it were true .
    How does Torres losing weight, going back to his 19 playing weight, have anything to do with Cano? and what are you talking about what happened when he left?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    How does Torres losing weight, going back to his 19 playing weight, have anything to do with Cano? and what are you talking about what happened when he left?
    Cano was busted for steroids not long after he left the Yankees and one would have to be blind to think he wasnít using while with the Yankees , remember his best friend was melky who also got busted for roids . I am not saying Torres has done anything or if he got a little ď helpĒ in the past . Just saying with all the cheating that has gone over the last 5 plus years , it wouldnít surprise me if was true .

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Agree to disagree on the DJ Voit defensive thing.

    Like i said i don't know what the right realistic option is with Torres. Ideally they could trade him for a great starter and sign Seager but i don't think thats going to happen. I think the Yanks are much more invested in Torres, like they have been with Sanchez so i don't think they move him without getting what they want in return.

    Realistic options i don't believe include Cashman being fired, i just don't see Hal having the sack to so it. If the whole season goes to hell, maybe, maybe you see Cashman transition more to a Presidents role and maybe they bring in someone to run the day to day.

    Realistically i think the coach goes before the GM. I would love to see a different voice with a different philosophy brought in as GM, i just don't think its likely at the point. I think you would have to see multiple disaster yrs in a row for Hal to completely fire Cashman, realistically
    If they are so invested in Torres then why did they bring back dj? Why did they trade for odor to also play second base ? Why has it been said that the Yankees are waiting for the big free agent SS class of this next off season to spend money? Why havenít the Yankees front office shut down the trade rumors surrounding story to the Yankees ? And while in the midst of all the moving of players around the infield this season. , why havenít they moved Torres to second base for even one game yet ?

    And as for cashman getting fired , I know he wonít be canned anytime soon . I have said it many times that hal doesnít care enough to do anything that truly needs to be done . All I am doing is blaming the guy that is atleast 50% to blame for this teamís current but not very new struggles
    Last edited by Posada20; 04-19-2021 at 11:57 PM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    If they are so invested in Torres then why did they bring back dj? Why did they trade for odor to also play second base ? Why has it been said that the Yankees are waiting for the big free agent SS class of this next off season to spend money? Why havenít the Yankees front office shut down the trade rumors surrounding story to the Yankees ? And while in the midst of all the moving of players around the infield this season. , why havenít they moved Torres to second base for even one game yet ?

    And as for cashman getting fired , I know he wonít be canned anytime soon . I have said it many times that hal doesnít care enough to do anything that truly needs to be done . All I am doing is blaming the guy that is atleast 50% to blame for this teamís current but not very new struggles
    As far as why they haven't moved Torres around is because they really don't have anyone else capable of playing SS. They also probably want to see more than a 12 sample size before they make a franchise decision like that. Yes they have last yr also but they have publicly dismissed that.

    As far as rumors go you can't expect them to comment on player who are currently signed with another team, thats tampering. Think about how many players were rumored to becoming to the Yanks and how many actually ended up here. Rumors are just that, especially when there are so many other factors involved.

    I would agree with you 100% that Cash is to blame for atleast 50% of whats going on, I think this yr is more on Hal but Cashman definitely has a huge part of that.

    There is something wrong when you have a team that has a philosophy that there star 31yr old DH, who is built like he made our of marble, has to have a day off, from DHing for load management, every 6 games. BS

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    As far as why they haven't moved Torres around is because they really don't have anyone else capable of playing SS. They also probably want to see more than a 12 sample size before they make a franchise decision like that. Yes they have last yr also but they have publicly dismissed that.

    As far as rumors go you can't expect them to comment on player who are currently signed with another team, thats tampering. Think about how many players were rumored to becoming to the Yanks and how many actually ended up here. Rumors are just that, especially when there are so many other factors involved.

    I would agree with you 100% that Cash is to blame for atleast 50% of whats going on, I think this yr is more on Hal but Cashman definitely has a huge part of that.

    There is something wrong when you have a team that has a philosophy that there star 31yr old DH, who is built like he made our of marble, has to have a day off, from DHing for load management, every 6 games. BS
    They donít have anyone else to play ss? They have wade , and until recently estrada who btw were the hottest hitters for the Yankees this past spring training . You canít possibly tell me they would be doing any worse right now with wade at ss , Torres at 2b and dj at first . Heck they even had urshela play a game at ss for one game this season . So they had options for ss on the roster but inexplicably didnít take them .

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