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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I mean Edelman wasnít great/elite for 5+ years. He had 3 great years but then he also only ever played 16 games 3 times in his career. Something has to be said about availability too. 14, 15, and 18 looked like they should be great but he missed 3, 7, and 4 games those years.
    Yes he missed time those years but he also added the following in the playoffs those years.
    2014 - 281 yards, 1 TD
    2015 - 153 yards
    2018 - 388 yards

    Iím not trying to discount playoff performances but dude doesnít even sniff HOF conversation if it wasnít for the playoffs. Thatís where I struggle with this. If he was at least a discussion without playoffs, sure, Iíd give him the boost into the HOF with the playoff stats but thatís not the player he is without the playoffs.
    100% he is what he is based on playoffs. I don't see why that should be discounted. He performed against the best teams, when it mattered, in the biggest spots. And made some of the biggest plays ever made in those games. We're not talking about big performances against the Bengals in week 2 here. We're talking some legendary performances against dominant defenses like Seattle was at the time.

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  2. #62
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    It's "discounted" because it's Hall of Fame, not "Hall of Big Plays".

    Edelman is one of the easiest "no's" of a good player in a long time for me. Never top 5, heck maybe not even top 10 at his position. Came up big in the playoffs but doesn't have the full resume to back it up. Played his entire career with the GOAT and still managed just ok stats.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It's "discounted" because it's Hall of Fame, not "Hall of Big Plays".

    Edelman is one of the easiest "no's" of a good player in a long time for me. Never top 5, heck maybe not even top 10 at his position. Came up big in the playoffs but doesn't have the full resume to back it up. Played his entire career with the GOAT and still managed just ok stats.
    You have a vailed view of what the HOF is. The HOF is not the Hall of great statistics.

    Directly from the HOF website

    Mission: Honor the Hero's of the Game. Preserve its History. Promote its Values. Celebrate excellence EVERYWHERE.

    The HOF is NOT solely based on regular season statistics. Many people seem to think it is, but it is not it's entire purpose. Yes they matter and contribute in the decision making. But they are not the end all be all of choosing who enters the HOF.

    City of Champions

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Yes he missed time those years but he also added the following in the playoffs those years.
    2014 - 281 yards, 1 TD
    2015 - 153 yards
    2018 - 388 yards



    100% he is what he is based on playoffs. I don't see why that should be discounted. He performed against the best teams, when it mattered, in the biggest spots. And made some of the biggest plays ever made in those games. We're not talking about big performances against the Bengals in week 2 here. We're talking some legendary performances against dominant defenses like Seattle was at the time.
    Follow up on this, Edelman missed games those seasons and the team suffered mightily. He was a huge part of their offense.

    2014 - 11-3 w/ Edelman, 1-1 W/O
    2015 - 9-0 w/ Edelman, 3-4 W/O
    2018 - 9-3 w/ Edelman, 2-2 W/O

    In total - 29-6 with Edelman in the lineup and sub .500 at 6-7 without.

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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    You have a vailed view of what the HOF is. The HOF is not the Hall of great statistics.

    Directly from the HOF website

    Mission: Honor the Hero's of the Game. Preserve its History. Promote its Values. Celebrate excellence EVERYWHERE.

    The HOF is NOT solely based on regular season statistics. Many people seem to think it is, but it is not it's entire purpose. Yes they matter and contribute in the decision making. But they are not the end all be all of choosing who enters the HOF.
    Roughly 90 percent of games played are in the regular season so yes it is the most important thing. The things you cling too is the icing to the cake.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Follow up on this, Edelman missed games those seasons and the team suffered mightily. He was a huge part of their offense.

    2014 - 11-3 w/ Edelman, 1-1 W/O
    2015 - 9-0 w/ Edelman, 3-4 W/O
    2018 - 9-3 w/ Edelman, 2-2 W/O

    In total - 29-6 with Edelman in the lineup and sub .500 at 6-7 without.
    Quoting this first and will touch on the other.

    How many of those games were end of season throwaway games? Roughly .500 percentage I wouldnít call ďstruggle mightily.Ē

    My stance is regular season stats should be looked at first. If they are borderline then playoffs can supplant them.

    I also donít think it takes away either. Like Marvin Harrison is a HOF because of regular season, not because of 883 yards and 2 TDs in 16 career playoff games.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It's "discounted" because it's Hall of Fame, not "Hall of Big Plays".

    Edelman is one of the easiest "no's" of a good player in a long time for me. Never top 5, heck maybe not even top 10 at his position. Came up big in the playoffs but doesn't have the full resume to back it up. Played his entire career with the GOAT and still managed just ok stats.
    Bingo

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    How many of those games were end of season throwaway games? Roughly .500 percentage I wouldnít call ďstruggle mightily.Ē
    You can argue that 3 of them were "throw away games". But the 4 games in 2018 were at the beginning of the season. And in 2015 week 11 loss to DEN, week 12 loss to PHI, week 16 against the 10-6 Jets ... these were not throw away games.

    Struggle mightily was poor wording...More accurately, a clear drop off.

    My stance is regular season stats should be looked at first. If they are borderline then playoffs can supplant them.
    I would agree that regular season stats are important. But I don't think anyone needs to get in on them alone. Eye popping playoff numbers certainly matter and can be a basis for a case. It's just uncommon.

    I also donít think it takes away either. Like Marvin Harrison is a HOF because of regular season, not because of 883 yards and 2 TDs in 16 career playoff games.
    Agree

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    You can argue that 3 of them were "throw away games". But the 4 games in 2018 were at the beginning of the season. And in 2015 week 11 loss to DEN, week 12 loss to PHI, week 16 against the 10-6 Jets ... these were not throw away games.

    Struggle mightily was poor wording...More accurately, a clear drop off.



    I would agree that regular season stats are important. But I don't think anyone needs to get in on them alone. Eye popping playoff numbers certainly matter and can be a basis for a case. It's just uncommon.



    Agree
    Iíll say that Julian does have playoff stats that at least make me say ďhey these could be HOF worthy,Ē but Iíd still look at what kind of player he was in the regular season in which all his peers get to play the same amount.

    His playoff stats at least warrant a look, but his overall numbers donít warrant the playoff stats to push him in.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Iíll say that Julian does have playoff stats that at least make me say ďhey these could be HOF worthy,Ē but Iíd still look at what kind of player he was in the regular season in which all his peers get to play the same amount.

    His playoff stats at least warrant a look, but his overall numbers donít warrant the playoff stats to push him in.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That's a fair take. As I originally said, I don't think Edelman is a slam dunk HOFer, but at least worthy of the discussion. I do think he'll get in down the line

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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    That's a fair take. As I originally said, I don't think Edelman is a slam dunk HOFer, but at least worthy of the discussion. I do think he'll get in down the line
    It is not worthy of discussion
    He will never get in.
    Like the player but itís not even close.

  12. #72
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    Julian Edelman to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    That's a fair take. As I originally said, I don't think Edelman is a slam dunk HOFer, but at least worthy of the discussion. I do think he'll get in down the line
    I donít think he gets in. There are players that were just as good in the playoffs that didnít get in due to their regular season stats not being HOF worthy.

    Ricky Waters has 1100 total yards and 12 TDs in 11 playoff games.

    Antonio Freeman with 823 receiving yards and 10 TDs in 16 games.

    Hines Ward 1181 receiving yards and 10 TDs in 18 games

    Steve Smith (even though he might) 1001 receiving yards 9 TDs in 11 games.

    Anquan Boldin 1057 yards with 8 TDs in 15 games

    Iíd argue every one of these had a better regular season and at least on par playoff stats as Edelman. All also went to a SB with most winning one.

    I donít think Iíd take Julian over any of these.


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    Last edited by koldjerky; 04-15-2021 at 02:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    It is not worthy of discussion
    He will never get in.
    Like the player but itís not even close.
    This.

    God I am agreeing with Dallas fans too much lately.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    This.

    God I am agreeing with Dallas fans too much lately.
    Donít worry. Iím sure there will be plenty of opportunities this year for us to disagree. Lol

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Donít worry. Iím sure there will be plenty of opportunities this year for us to disagree. Lol
    Maybe not. I'm tired of arguing.

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