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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Itís not like thereís a minimum of inductees at a position have to be met. X number of RBs having to make it isnít a thing.

    Gore - no
    Peterson - absolutely
    Lynch - yes
    McCoy - no

    Less RBs will start making it than historically they did. But more TEs will make than they historically did
    wait... what reasoning is there for lynch over gore? wtf

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    wait... what reasoning is there for lynch over gore? wtf
    Lynch had the shorter career but was a more dominant player.

    Similar rush/rec yards per game as Gore

    Total (season and playoffs)
    Lynch - 84.87y/g, .69TD/g
    Gore - 83.28y/g, .42TD/g

    But Lynch made 5 Pro Bowls (same as Gore)
    Lead the league in rushing TDís twice (Gore never)
    1 AP (Gore none)
    5 AP 1st team from (PFW,AP) (Gore 1)
    2 AP 2nd team from (PFW, AP) (Gore 1)
    3 All conference (Gore 1)
    5 Pro Bowls (same as Gore)
    Super Bowl winner (Gore none)
    Multiple memorable playoff performances in 2010, 2013, 2014

    Theyíre both borderline for me. But Lynch was the more dominant player, granted for a shorter period of time. But if you ask me who Iíd rather have for 5 years in their prime Lynch or Gore... I donít even hesitate in picking Lynch.

    City of Champions

  3. #48
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    I think of it like this. If the HOF is the museum of the NFL and every player has their own glass case of their career accomplishments and highlights on display - whoís are you going up to and spending time looking over and re living?

    A player who put up good numbers for many years like Frank Gore or Phillip Rivers. Not any memorable plays or victories off memory.

    Or guys like Julian Edelman or Marshawn Lynch who put up great numbers for a smaller time frame. But that showcase is loaded with elite playoff performances and highlights.

    I know which Iíd spend more time at.

    To me the HOF tells the story of the NFL. And itís reserved for the truly elite and those who either changed the game or who made plays that mattered in the biggest situations or did things weíll likely never see again.

    There are a ton of great players like Rivers and Gore who put up great numbers. It doesnít take anything away from what they did to not put them in the HOF. But I just donít think theyíre in the same class as those who I just described.

    Being completely honest, I canít remember a single big play or memorable moment from Gore in the NFL. I know he put up a lot of yards and played forever, thatís how Iíll remember him. But that doesnít get me excited.

  4. #49
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    I think people forget how good Rivers was when the Chargers had a semi competent team. I'd argue he was on the cusp of elite from 2008-2011. He had a stacked team early in his career that he didn't do much with, but once he developed he carried some pretty bad Chargers offenses. I can't imagine a world where he doesn't stand a solid chance at HOF. His only knocks are the lack of a SB/MVP and lack of accolades due to playing during a time with some stacked QBs in the league. I'm sure he got screwed out of some AP votes some years when Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers were the bigger names.

    Put Rivers in PIT or NYG and I bet he's got 2-3 rings and a much stronger HOF case.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    To me the HOF tells the story of the NFL. And itís reserved for the truly elite and those who either changed the game or who made plays that mattered in the biggest situations or did things weíll likely never see again.
    .
    So again, do Mario Manningham, David Tyree, and Iíll add Brandon Graham deserve to be in the HOF because all three of them made plays that mattered in the biggest situations AND did things well most likely never see again.

    Nick Foles also has a pretty stellar playoff stat line.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  6. #51
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    If Antonio Freeman isnít in the HOF, Julian Edelman shouldnít be.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    So again, do Mario Manningham, David Tyree, and Iíll add Brandon Graham deserve to be in the HOF because all three of them made plays that mattered in the biggest situations AND did things well most likely never see again.

    Nick Foles also has a pretty stellar playoff stat line.


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    No because I never said a player could stand on that alone. They need to have a period in their career where their numbers were also great/elite (Iíll say 5+ years minimum) Manningham or Tyree never put up any numbers anywhere near the top of the league

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I think people forget how good Rivers was when the Chargers had a semi competent team. I'd argue he was on the cusp of elite from 2008-2011. He had a stacked team early in his career that he didn't do much with, but once he developed he carried some pretty bad Chargers offenses. I can't imagine a world where he doesn't stand a solid chance at HOF. His only knocks are the lack of a SB/MVP and lack of accolades due to playing during a time with some stacked QBs in the league. I'm sure he got screwed out of some AP votes some years when Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers were the bigger names.

    Put Rivers in PIT or NYG and I bet he's got 2-3 rings and a much stronger HOF case.
    I mean, compared to their peers is generally how we grade people on HOF consideration. Rivers also benefited from playing during a time period that greatly benefited the passing game which helped inflate his numbers.

    Rivers had some very good teams and never got it done. Iíd argue a few of those teams were more talented than the teams that Eli and Ben won SBís with.

    Compared to his peers of his time - heís just doesnít make the cut with his resume IMO. If youíre a QB and donít win the big one, you need to be the absolute elite at the position (see Marino). Rivers was nowhere near that.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I mean, compared to their peers is generally how we grade people on HOF consideration. Rivers also benefited from playing during a time period that greatly benefited the passing game which helped inflate his numbers.

    Rivers had some very good teams and never got it done. Iíd argue a few of those teams were more talented than the teams that Eli and Ben won SBís with.

    Compared to his peers of his time - heís just doesnít make the cut with his resume IMO. If youíre a QB and donít win the big one, you need to be the absolute elite at the position (see Marino). Rivers was nowhere near that.
    The 2006 Chargers were stacked. I'm not sure any other team he had came close to the Steeler teams Ben had playoff success with. Eli has literally never won a playoff game except for 2007 and 2011.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    The 2006 Chargers were stacked. I'm not sure any other team he had came close to the Steeler teams Ben had playoff success with. Eli has literally never won a playoff game except for 2007 and 2011.
    2006-2009 Rivers had a solid defense (easily good enough to win, middle of the pack to top 3rd statistically) with an offense that featured LT (best RB of that era), Antonio Gates, Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. Not manny QBís had weapons like that. He went 14-2 and 13-3 in 2 of those 4 years.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    No because I never said a player could stand on that alone. They need to have a period in their career where their numbers were also great/elite (Iíll say 5+ years minimum) Manningham or Tyree never put up any numbers anywhere near the top of the league
    I mean Edelman wasnít great/elite for 5+ years. He had 3 great years but then he also only ever played 16 games 3 times in his career. Something has to be said about availability too. 14, 15, and 18 looked like they should be great but he missed 3, 7, and 4 games those years.

    Iím not trying to discount playoff performances but dude doesnít even sniff HOF conversation if it wasnít for the playoffs. Thatís where I struggle with this. If he was at least a discussion without playoffs, sure, Iíd give him the boost into the HOF with the playoff stats but thatís not the player he is without the playoffs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  12. #57
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    Was Edelman ever truly "great"?

    Was he ever really a top 5 kind of guy?

    It's a silly discussion.

  13. #58
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    I get that heís kind of unique. If you look across playoff leaderboards, most of the guys are all HOFers. Because most guys who only have 6 year runs of being starters like Edelman donít get to play that many playoff games to put up numbers. Most of all the other guys on leaderboards had to have 10+ years as starters to accumulate enough playoff games to accumulate those playoff stats. So even if the other guys on the leaderboards werenít truly the ďelite of the eliteĒ theyíd all have to have the type of career longevity to at least warrant HOF talk on their career numbers.

    Edelman was not elite and he doesnít have great longevity. He was just uniquely able to have what for most guys is a over a decades worth of playoff games in 6 year stretch. Itís a weird kind of statistical anomaly so I do get why itís a discussion to an extent. I just canít buy any argument he should actually get in compared to others who havenít.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Letís put this opinion to the test:
    Frank Gore. HOF?


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    I used to be against Gore as a HOFer because I never thought he was elite, just played long time.

    But then I looked in the mirror and asked myself why I was being such a hardo. Heís top whatever all time in rushing yards and playing a billion years at that position is impressive in itself. Just let him in.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Lynch had the shorter career but was a more dominant player.

    Similar rush/rec yards per game as Gore

    Total (season and playoffs)
    Lynch - 84.87y/g, .69TD/g
    Gore - 83.28y/g, .42TD/g

    But Lynch made 5 Pro Bowls (same as Gore)
    Lead the league in rushing TDís twice (Gore never)
    1 AP (Gore none)
    5 AP 1st team from (PFW,AP) (Gore 1)
    2 AP 2nd team from (PFW, AP) (Gore 1)
    3 All conference (Gore 1)
    5 Pro Bowls (same as Gore)
    Super Bowl winner (Gore none)
    Multiple memorable playoff performances in 2010, 2013, 2014

    Theyíre both borderline for me. But Lynch was the more dominant player, granted for a shorter period of time. But if you ask me who Iíd rather have for 5 years in their prime Lynch or Gore... I donít even hesitate in picking Lynch.
    Where did you find all these APs for Lynch?

    As for Gore he holds these records:

    - Most games played by a running back (241)
    - First player in NFL history with 12 consecutive 1,200-yards seasons from scrimmage

    I'm fairly certain these will still stand in 30 years.

    Gore's prime was 2180 yards, 9 TDs (high in yards), or 1526 yards, 13 TD (high in TD). Nothing to sneeze at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Itís not like thereís a minimum of inductees at a position have to be met. X number of RBs having to make it isnít a thing.

    Gore - no
    Peterson - absolutely
    Lynch - yes
    McCoy - no

    Less RBs will start making it than historically they did. But more TEs will make than they historically did
    Why Lynch but not McCoy?

    They are almost copies in terms of accomplishments: stats, All-Pros, Pro Bowls, 2010s Team.

    Lynch has the more memorable playoff performances because he actually played in the postseason a lot. McCoy still has 1 more Super Bowl ring though.

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