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  1. #106
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    7,619
    Dexter Fowler to have season ending knee surgery

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  2. #107
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    13,500
    This team is basically that PECOTA prediction of 79 wins from 2 or 3 years ago, but only worse. At least the 2022 draft is apparently loaded, so thatís something good to look forward to.

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Native Chicagoan in Eugene, OR
    Posts
    511
    Iím one of those lifelong fans who constantly said, ďIf they could just win one...Ē Well, it happened, and Iím a liar, because Iím not even remotely satisfied. The levels to which this team has sunk over the last few years is patently unacceptable, and my frustration is only compounded by how little we will actually get in return when the inevitable sell-off actually commences. Itís gonna be a long, slow, painful couple of years.

  4. #109
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    186
    I honestly dont really care if they win a WS. I just want to watch good baseball and this team has been fundamentally garbage for 3 years now. They just arent enjoyable to watch any more.

  5. #110
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    91,694
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Or 2009? Or 2013?

    This is not a particularly good Cubs team. It'll get worse when they trade guys off. It may be a 75 win team at the end of things. But this isn't the worst Cubs team in the last 20 years, either. They probably won't even be the worst team in the division end of the year.

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    Obviously too early to tell or compare. That said, we arenít good.

  6. #111
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    57,728
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Obviously too early to tell or compare. That said, we arenít good.
    I would say it's not too early to compare 2020 to 2012. The 2012 team didn't have anyone near as good as Bryant, Hendricks, Kimbrel, Baez...I know they've gotten off to a somewhat rough start. but they have enough track record where we know they're not replacement level players and should be 2.5+ wins or above.

    This was the 2012 opening day lineup:
    David DeJesus
    Darwin Barney
    Starlin Castro
    Bryan LaHair
    Alfonso Soriano
    Ian Stewart
    Marlon Byrd
    Geo Soto
    Dempster

    There are multiple replacement level players in that lineup. I know everyone is super down on the Cubs because they got their *** beat Sunday by the Pirates (it was not a fun game) but the Pirates will probably beat down a few teams they shouldn't in a 162 game span. It doesn't make this the worst Cubs team in 20 years either. This is clearly not a great team. It's probable that it's not a good team. Mediocre is probably where it settles before trade deadline day (they may become the worst team in 20 years based on how much they sell off, or are able to sell off). This team still probably hit 78-82 wins based on this roster today if they got a full, healthy year (they wont). They may finish 70-75 in the win category post sell off. They might even find a way to come in at 68 wins. The 2012 team won 61 games. They lost 100. This team is not that bad. Definitely not today (this team today runs circles around 2012).

    It's just normal hyperbolic reactions. Everything is either the worst ever or the best ever with little nuance. It'll be a pretty unfun Cubs baseball year when it is all said and done. But its also not the worst team in the the last 20 years, either. Like I said, they're almost assuredly not the worst team in their own division (Pittsburgh is putrid and despite a series win against the Cubs will win less games).

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    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 04-12-2021 at 09:26 AM.

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,247
    It's such a terrible time for a rebuild too with the games in the minors all FUBAR because of covid. Our prospects don't seem to be getting the opportunity that other prospects in the past have had to grow and improve, and meanwhile, our on the field product has looked awful.
    Ü

    "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

    - Romans 8:25

  8. #113
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    It's such a terrible time for a rebuild too with the games in the minors all FUBAR because of covid. Our prospects don't seem to be getting the opportunity that other prospects in the past have had to grow and improve, and meanwhile, our on the field product has looked awful.
    It's going to be interesting to see what Hoyer does. He just signed a 5 year deal and I doubt he's looking to do a full tear down rebuild of the roster and throw away the majority of his years in his biggest opportunity ever.

    He seemed pretty confident about getting a Rizzo extension worked out and even if Rizzo cut off talks when the season started it at least sounded like Hoyer wanted to keep him around.

    I just hope he doesn't hitch his wagon to Baez because Baez retracted his season opener deadline. Baez is easily the least attractive FA to be SS and all of his success relies on being good at things that are setup for failure.

  9. #114
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles County, CA
    Posts
    45,584
    The team is currently rocking a 65 wRC+, far and away the worst in the league, about 20% worse than the 2012 team even. The swing and miss on the team puts them firmly behind the 8 ball and they get absolutely eaten alive by rise and none of them can hit a breaking ball with authority with any consistency. 2012 ended with an 81. They shouldn't be that bad but they aren't showing many signs that they aren't.

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    57,728
    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    The team is currently rocking a 65 wRC+, far and away the worst in the league, about 20% worse than the 2012 team even. The swing and miss on the team puts them firmly behind the 8 ball and they get absolutely eaten alive by rise and none of them can hit a breaking ball with authority with any consistency. 2012 ended with an 81. They shouldn't be that bad but they aren't showing many signs that they aren't.
    A 65 wRC+ for a full season would be the worst hitting team of all time levels by leaps and bounds. This is exactly why everyone should relax a bit on the hyperbole. Yeah, I get it, it's been a comically slow start offensively. There's zero reason to believe this is the worst offensive team ever constructed. The 47 win 2018 Baltimore Orioles who put up 2 fWAR as a team offensively had an 87 wRC+. The Cubs will regress to the mean. It might not be a juggernaut, it might not even be average, but they're going to break out of this type of a slump at some point. There's too many MLB level hitters. The entire team didn't become Tony Wolters (Wolters has a career 57 wRC+, so it's right around that level and he's been the worst hitter in the MLB).

    That's why we can't overract to 9 games. I'm not enthused by this team; I don't think it's a good team. I also can understand 9 games is 9 games and they didn't somehow become the worst hitting team in the MLB history with the guys they have. There's shades of gray here people just don't want to see because all they remember is Sunday and it was unfun. It's a not good team. It's not the worst Cubs team in 20 years. It's not the worst team in the MLB. It's not the worst team in the division. It's just a regular old not good team.

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