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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    West Side
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    13,572

    Ray or Semien or both?

    Right now:

    Semien leads the LEAGUE for batters with a 6.1 WAR
    Ray is probably a top 3 Cy Young candidate.

    Both are going to be needs going forward. Both are having outstanding seasons. Both have taken their games to new levels as Jays. Both are going to get paid.

    But going forward, we have to keep in mind our core young players that will be arb eligible soon and you probably want to lock up long term. Is there a risk in backing up the dump trucks full of cash to Semien (31 soon, maybe he'll want to sign somewhere to play SS?) and Ray (does he repeat this caliber of season) with the risk of not being able to afford extensions to others?

    Both would leave huge holes in the lineup and rotation.

    Do you prioritize one over the other? Do you try signing both? Do you let them walk? What are the short and long term consequences and risks?


    The Lost Boys of PSD

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    14,442
    Both.
    Especially if we make the playoffs.

    But can we still add Major BP pieces if we re-sign them? Even if we cannot, I think we are best off re-signing both. Id be trying to keep rays contract as short as possible.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Castlevania
    Posts
    4,098
    They are both 30 or entering their 30s.

    Simien actually had a better year at the plate 2 seasons ago. But has otherwise been just average.

    Robbie Ray has been an average pitcher except for 2017 and this year.


    Buyer beware honestly. It feels like career years to land the bag.

    Should extend at least one of them and hope they don't massively regress.
    Until they prove the fans wrong again


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Shore
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    12,862
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Both.
    Especially if we make the playoffs.

    But can we still add Major BP pieces if we re-sign them? Even if we cannot, I think we are best off re-signing both. Id be trying to keep rays contract as short as possible.
    Agreed. Although, if it comes down to one, it has to be Ray. Starrting pitching is much more of a need but, ****, I love everything about Semien. Id hope they'd both take something in the 5/125 range. Still shouldn't effect things too much.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    13,569
    From every indication, Semien is an excellent leader with tremendous work ethic. He provides solid MI defense and is elite offensively. This is 2/3 season that he could finish Top 3 in WAR in the AL. Ray is absolutely a Cy Young candidate and seems to have figured out his command issues. He has plenty of prime years left.

    If some of our young talent becomes as good as these players, it is a best case scenario. I believe in both. Sign the guys you know can get the job done. Let their leadership pave the way for young players to be the best they can. If either player were having these seasons with other teams, we'd have a hard time bringing them over against teams that they are familiar with. They both like being here. They are comfortable here. This is actually kind of rare. Every budget has limits, but it seems like a mistake to let either leave. We know what type of fan attendance will happen if this team contends. We have a chance to be very very good for the foreseeable future. This isn't investing into a small window, it is a sustainable one. Now is the time to pay. Otherwise they will regret it IMO.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Ontario
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    15,009
    Theres lots of money. $100m or so. Arbitration raises. Semien. Ray. Bullpen. And a 3B via trade.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2,062
    Problem is that at some point you're going to have to deal with those contracts and the arb raises. Depends how much money they're willing to spend.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ontario
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    15,009
    Quote Originally Posted by LechWalesa View Post
    Problem is that at some point you're going to have to deal with those contracts and the arb raises. Depends how much money they're willing to spend.
    For sure, but you can work that stuff out as you go. Ryu will come off the books right when Vlad will hit arb 3. Of course hes not the only one. But some of these guys could be dealt as they get expensive and some of these kids replace them later.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    59,389
    If I had to pick, Semien. Ray is way too inconsistent for me. I do think neither one will live up to their next contract though (since they'll probably land $100 mil deals.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    8,712
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Both.
    Especially if we make the playoffs.

    But can we still add Major BP pieces if we re-sign them? Even if we cannot, I think we are best off re-signing both. Id be trying to keep rays contract as short as possible.
    I would say for y'all it depends on if and if y'all get to the playoffs and if you do then y'all keep both guys

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    7,710
    BOTH!!!!!!!!!!

    They don't have to pick, so don't. Just bring em both back.

    If I do have to pick, I'll go with the SP that has pitched like an ace all season. They don't have many arms in the minors, so they need to do whatever they can to bring back Ray imo. They also need to bring back Matz. Those 2 have both been great this year. Matz is 11-7 with basically the same ERA as Ryu and Manoah. He keeps getting overlooked, but for our "#5 SP" he has been very, very good.

    If you think about it, did anyone have a better off season last year than Ross Atkins? Semien, Ray and Matz all on 1 year bargains to go along with the biggest fish on the market in Springer. All he needs to do now is convince Semien, Ray and Matz to stay in Toronto and his offseason would be very good. ..and he gets time to talk to those guys before other GM's. If he also adds a back end reliever it would be great. If he adds a back end reliever AND an upgrade at 3B it would be incredible. The way Pearson looks in the bullpen though, I think the tandem of Romano and Pearson at the back end is pretty darn good if they finally realize that is where Pearson needs to stay.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    59,389
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Theres lots of money. $100m or so. Arbitration raises. Semien. Ray. Bullpen. And a 3B via trade.
    If they sign Simien, I wonder if Bo concedes SS or if Marcus willing to play 3B.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,312
    I would say neither. Ray will get paid like an ace but not your real ace. Ryu/ Berrios/Manioh make good first 3. Stripling and offer Matz a 1 year deal make good back of rotation.

    Jays have several good middle infield prospects getting close. Lopez good looking player. Espinal good player also. Either be 25 million cheaper than Semien.

    Having 3 first round picks and 40 million to spend not a bad thing also.
    .

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Rogers Centre
    Posts
    25,315
    Semien has made me not care anymore about the upcoming SS free agent class. If Ray could be had for something like 4/100 then I'm interested. Semien is the guy I want to keep though.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6,684
    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie View Post
    I would say neither. Ray will get paid like an ace but not your real ace. Ryu/ Berrios/Manioh make good first 3. Stripling and offer Matz a 1 year deal make good back of rotation.

    Jays have several good middle infield prospects getting close. Lopez good looking player. Espinal good player also. Either be 25 million cheaper than Semien.

    Having 3 first round picks and 40 million to spend not a bad thing also.
    .
    Compensation is after 2nd round nowadays

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