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  1. #106
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    Miami will not miss VO for the playoffs this year. He hasn't make that big of an impact for them since the trade.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I think Lowry is their guy too. He and Butler are very close. KL is Butlers daughters god father.

    But aside from the sentimental stuff Lowry would be a really good fit in Miami. He brings the same intensity that Jimmy does. He has a bulldog mentality, heís tough, and the guy just knows how to win games and is an incredible leader for young players.

    I donít know what Miamiís plans are for Dragic but Lowry also has experience playing with Dragic back in Houston. Since then both players have evolved and can player either 1 or 2 and even have the ability to play off the ball if need be.

    Even though Lowry is 35 he fits Butler window, his game doesnít rely much on athletic ability and he is still playing at a high level. Iíd love for Lowry to stay in Toronto, but realistically at his age he wants to compete and Toronto canít afford him that as theyíre setting up for a retool. I think Lowry will consider a few teams but the more I think about it the more it seems Miami is the perfect fit for him and for them as well.
    He's already played in Florida the past 2 seasons too.

  3. #108
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    I can see Kyle Lowry in South Beach next year.

  4. #109
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    How much does Lowry really move the needle next year? Does he make em better, sure. But that much better that they might actually be contenders....nah.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    He's already played in Florida the past 2 seasons too.
    And sold his home in Toronto. For all we know heís already shopping in Miami.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZNC View Post
    How much does Lowry really move the needle next year? Does he make em better, sure. But that much better that they might actually be contenders....nah.
    They were contenders last year with out him no?

    The way I see it is the team is built around Butler, with Bam as their young up and coming star. Aside from that you have a ton of youth. Lowry would be a solid addition in my opinion. Heís a very smart player that makes winning plays, completely unselfish, and might be the presence they need in the post season. I donít really need to sell Lowry here if you watch any game with him in it his ball iq really shows. The little timely things he does to win games are an asset to any team really. Iím just saying itís very likely he ends up in Miami. It makes a lot of sense, plus at this stage in his career I donít think it would take a ton of money to sign him either.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Donít look now but Oladipo left the Lakers game on a non-contact play. All he did was jump up for an uncontested two handed dunk.
    And he never played another game this year. Wonder if Beasted still thinks that the Heat are better with him over a guy thatís trying to prove his worth in a contract year. Olynyk has looked pretty good.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    They were contenders last year with out him no?

    The way I see it is the team is built around Butler, with Bam as their young up and coming star. Aside from that you have a ton of youth. Lowry would be a solid addition in my opinion. Heís a very smart player that makes winning plays, completely unselfish, and might be the presence they need in the post season. I donít really need to sell Lowry here if you watch any game with him in it his ball iq really shows. The little timely things he does to win games are an asset to any team really. Iím just saying itís very likely he ends up in Miami. It makes a lot of sense, plus at this stage in his career I donít think it would take a ton of money to sign him either.
    They weren't actually contenders though. They hit a hot shooting streak that was ultimately unsustainable/was able to take advantage of the chaos that came with the bubble. Don't see lightning striking twice like that, even if they added Lowry. Bam would have to make a massive, massive leap for them to realistically be a contender.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    They weren't actually contenders though. They hit a hot shooting streak that was ultimately unsustainable/was able to take advantage of the chaos that came with the bubble. Don't see lightning striking twice like that, even if they added Lowry. Bam would have to make a massive, massive leap for them to realistically be a contender.
    Butler/Bam/Lowry/Robinson/Herro/Dragic/Precious/Nunn/Ariza/Bjelica

    That looks pretty good on paper for the eastern conference. They are well coached as well. And where they have room to grow is in their youth core. With strong leadership those young guys will continue to grow.

    Now Brooklyn & The Bucks would still be favs but I think Miami and the 6ers would be right there in the top 4 seed with them.

    I could be wrong Miami could target someone else but if I were a betting man I think Lowry ends up there.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Butler/Bam/Lowry/Robinson/Herro/Dragic/Precious/Nunn/Ariza/Bjelica

    That looks pretty good on paper for the eastern conference. They are well coached as well. And where they have room to grow is in their youth core. With strong leadership those young guys will continue to grow.

    Now Brooklyn & The Bucks would still be favs but I think Miami and the 6ers would be right there in the top 4 seed with them.

    I could be wrong Miami could target someone else but if I were a betting man I think Lowry ends up there.
    I'd be willing to bet that Lowry ends up there as well, but it could be too little too late at this stage. If he joined like, last season it would be a huge boost, but I think the age and injuries are finally starting to catch up, and I think that all star type of impact he had may have come to an end. Would love to be proven wrong though.

    I think Dragic is in the same boat, but even moreso. He's looked a bit washed this year, and I think it's mainly due to injuries. Dragic and Lowry splitting time at point guard could be super effective as I think both have the skill set to be one of those low minute/high value guys ala Marc Gasol, but I'm not sold on that being enough to contend, and I'm definitely not sold on the idea that both will stay healthy next year.

    As for Miami's young guys, Bam is legit, Precious is interesting but not ready for playoff minutes, defenses have figured out Nunn to the point that he shouldn't be in the rotation much either come playoff time. I don't buy into the Herro hype at all, and think his ceiling is a league average starter, same with Robinson. Ariza is washed, and has been washed for quite some time. He's one of those guys that's been coasting on name value since his Houston days, and I'd be shocked if they bring him back next year.

    Butler certainly looks like he has at least a couple really high level All NBA years left, and one could argue he's as good as he's ever been right now. So for me, again, this all comes back to what Bam's ceiling looks like. If he morphs into a strong All NBA player as well next season, then yeah maybe Miami can make some noise in the Eastern conference, but for now it feels unlikely.

    Really it's a shame this free agent class is so weak, because Miami feels poised to add an additional star next to Bam and Jimmy. If they added an All NBA level guy, or even a solid all star level guy they'd be mega interesting.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    I'd be willing to bet that Lowry ends up there as well, but it could be too little too late at this stage. If he joined like, last season it would be a huge boost, but I think the age and injuries are finally starting to catch up, and I think that all star type of impact he had may have come to an end. Would love to be proven wrong though.

    I think Dragic is in the same boat, but even moreso. He's looked a bit washed this year, and I think it's mainly due to injuries. Dragic and Lowry splitting time at point guard could be super effective as I think both have the skill set to be one of those low minute/high value guys ala Marc Gasol, but I'm not sold on that being enough to contend, and I'm definitely not sold on the idea that both will stay healthy next year.

    As for Miami's young guys, Bam is legit, Precious is interesting but not ready for playoff minutes, defenses have figured out Nunn to the point that he shouldn't be in the rotation much either come playoff time. I don't buy into the Herro hype at all, and think his ceiling is a league average starter, same with Robinson. Ariza is washed, and has been washed for quite some time. He's one of those guys that's been coasting on name value since his Houston days, and I'd be shocked if they bring him back next year.

    Butler certainly looks like he has at least a couple really high level All NBA years left, and one could argue he's as good as he's ever been right now. So for me, again, this all comes back to what Bam's ceiling looks like. If he morphs into a strong All NBA player as well next season, then yeah maybe Miami can make some noise in the Eastern conference, but for now it feels unlikely.

    Really it's a shame this free agent class is so weak, because Miami feels poised to add an additional star next to Bam and Jimmy. If they added an All NBA level guy, or even a solid all star level guy they'd be mega interesting.
    Lowry hasnt been injured. The raptors just went in to tank mode and take turns resting FVV-Lowry since the all star break. FVV actually was injured with a hip flexor but even when he got healthy he still sat out games. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/player...164/kyle-lowry


    If you look at Lowry's numbers they are on par with some of his best seasons, and better than some of his worst. He hasn't started his decline yet, but its not farfetched to say he is at that stage where he will start to show signs. I think Nurse plays him about 34 mins a game still. If you reduced that number to about 28-30 I don't doubt that Lowry can sustain his production for another year or two. He only average 14-8-4 in the ship run season and his numbers actually went up after Kawhi left. What that tells me is he is able to play off of a star and is so good in that role even if he doesn't put up the same sexy numbers. He doesn't need a ton of touches, but will facilitate the offense, take charges, play hard d, even set screens, hit a clutch 3 etc. He just does all those little things so well and I think he will continue to sustain that as none of it really relies on athletic ability. The only thing I can realistically see declining is his lateral quickness which would effect his man to man defense, but I think he would still be an above average defender even with the regression in that area. You maybe right, Kyle might not have the same impact he did a few seasons ago, but I can tell you he will give them so much more than Oladipo could have for a season or two, and if the price is right it can work out for them.

    with respect to the rest of your post, Butler/Bam/Lowry would be their main guys, Dragic would serve as a 6th man, and Robinson, Herro, Nunn, Precious, Bjelica, Ariza would be supporting pieces in a role. I do think guys like Herro & Nunn could benefit a lot from Lowry. Almost every young guard who came up in our system def learned a ton from Kyle, from Freddy V to Norm, and now Flynn as well. That's part of the appeal to Lowry is how he can help those young guys get closer to reaching their full potential.

    on a side note, Lowry has been doing a lot of coaching lately, I think he is grooming himself to be a coach after he retires. As it is now he is just an extension of the coach on the floor, and that helps the young players a lot. I think he would have the same effect in Miami.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 05-13-2021 at 03:06 PM.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Lowry hasnt been injured. The raptors just went in to tank mode and take turns resting FVV-Lowry since the all star break. FVV actually was injured with a hip flexor but even when he got healthy he still sat out games. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/player...164/kyle-lowry


    If you look at Lowry's numbers they are on par with some of his best seasons, and better than some of his worst. He hasn't started his decline yet, but its not farfetched to say he is at that stage where he will start to show signs. I think Nurse plays him about 34 mins a game still. If you reduced that number to about 28-30 I don't doubt that Lowry can sustain his production for another year or two. He only average 14-8-4 in the ship run season and his numbers actually went up after Kawhi left. What that tells me is he is able to play off of a star and is so good in that role even if he doesn't put up the same sexy numbers. He doesn't need a ton of touches, but will facilitate the offense, take charges, play hard d, even set screens, hit a clutch 3 etc. He just does all those little things so well and I think he will continue to sustain that as none of it really relies on athletic ability. The only thing I can realistically see declining is his lateral quickness which would effect his man to man defense, but I think he would still be an above average defender even with the regression in that area. You maybe right, Kyle might not have the same impact he did a few seasons ago, but I can tell you he will give them so much more than Oladipo could have for a season or two, and if the price is right it can work out for them.

    with respect to the rest of your post, Butler/Bam/Lowry would be their main guys, Dragic would serve as a 6th man, and Robinson, Herro, Nunn, Precious, Bjelica, Ariza would be supporting pieces in a role. I do think guys like Herro & Nunn could benefit a lot from Lowry. Almost every young guard who came up in our system def learned a ton from Kyle, from Freddy V to Norm, and now Flynn as well. That's part of the appeal to Lowry is how he can help those young guys get closer to reaching their full potential.

    on a side note, Lowry has been doing a lot of coaching lately, I think he is grooming himself to be a coach after he retires. As it is now he is just an extension of the coach on the floor, and that helps the young players a lot. I think he would have the same effect in Miami.
    Yeah he'd definitely have a much bigger impact than Oladipo, and I can also see him being one of those guys who's able to scrounge and scrape his way into pretty much always being a positive impact guy until he retires - I just don't know how needle moving he is at this stage.

    I think we're agreeing with each other more or less, we just have different interpretations on how needle moving Lowry would be in this theoretical situation. And you could be right, he could have a much larger impact than I'm suggesting, but I tend to err on the side of caution with players his age.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    For the record, I feel horrible for Oladipo. He seems like a good guy, and he plays hard. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel pretty good about this trade with Miami right about now. I said at the time that Heat fans ought to temper their expectations and he wasn't likely going to make them a better basketball team this season. I'm very rarely right, but I was this time.
    From a net exchange I see Houston saving money towards payroll, but not anything else. Am I missing something?

    The pick swap won't be executed, and Bradley and Olynyk likely aren't on the team next year. Olynyk possibly helped measure what type of bigs they can put around Porter. Otherwise trade is a wash from an acquisition standpoint.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    From a net exchange I see Houston saving money towards payroll, but not anything else. Am I missing something?

    The pick swap won't be executed, and Bradley and Olynyk likely aren't on the team next year. Olynyk possibly helped measure what type of bigs they can put around Porter. Otherwise trade is a wash from an acquisition standpoint.
    You're missing the pick swap next year. Houston has Brooklyn's pick, and part of the Oladipo trade was that they own the rights to swap either their pick or Brooklyn's pick with Miami's pick. So Houston basically gets the two best picks of those three.

    Also, it's worth noting at the time of the trade that a lot of people suggested Houston may have made the Heat better this season because of the deal, therefore actually hurting a pick that could potentially be their's should they not be picking in the top 4. If nothing else, that was definitely proven to be false, although that doesn't really benefit the Rockets either.
    Last edited by mightybosstone; 05-13-2021 at 08:39 PM.


  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    You're missing the pick swap next year. Houston has Brooklyn's pick, and part of the Oladipo trade was that they own the rights to swap either their pick or Brooklyn's pick with Miami's pick. So Houston basically gets the two best picks of those three.

    Also, it's worth noting at the time of the trade that a lot of people suggested Houston may have made the Heat better this season because of the deal, therefore actually hurting a pick that could potentially be their's should they not be picking in the top 4. If nothing else, that was definitely proven to be false, although that doesn't really benefit the Rockets either.
    Maybe I'm missing something. I'm expecting Miami to get a key free agent this summer that narrows the gap between Brooklyn and themselves.

    It's definitely a positive, but I'm not sure how much they'll be moving up. Definitely better than losing Oladipo for nothing I guess.

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