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Thread: Would ya?

  1. #136
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    Lol pretty much like saying you'd rather have 18-4 German over Jacob deGrom because German is a winner.

  2. #137
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    Yup



    Ignorance is bliss

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLES3658 View Post
    Lol pretty much like saying you'd rather have 18-4 German over Jacob deGrom because German is a winner.
    DeGrom's a special guy and pitched a great game in his last outing and still lost. Of course anyone would take DeGrom on their team. German isn't the pitcher he was two years ago. Hopefully he gets it back. He also lost. As Knute Rockne once said, show me a (good) loser and I'll show you a loser.

    LOL

  4. #139
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    Era reflects more on the performance by the pitcher. While a starting pitcher can heavily impact if the team wins or loses, W-L reflects more of the teams performance.

    I'll take the lower ERA guys every time, especially in the playoffs. Imo

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Era reflects more on the performance by the pitcher. While a starting pitcher can heavily impact if the team wins or loses, W-L reflects more of the teams performance.

    I'll take the lower ERA guys every time, especially in the playoffs. Imo
    Yep. Everyone but one poster seems to agree.
    The concept of winning and losing can be applied to the ERA. A pitcher loses when they give up a run. Do you want pitchers who lose 6 times a game or 2?

    Let's say those two teams meet in the ALCS. That means this pitchers have faced the same hitters. One group gave up 2 runs the others gave up 6. I absolutely roll with the pitchers who gave up 2. They are more reliable.
    It's why wins should not be the biggest factor in a pitchers evaluation



    Ignorance is bliss

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Era reflects more on the performance by the pitcher. While a starting pitcher can heavily impact if the team wins or loses, W-L reflects more of the teams performance.

    I'll take the lower ERA guys every time, especially in the playoffs. Imo
    Yep. All things considered (defense, run support ect.) the lower ERA guys give their team a much better opportunity for the W.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    "Fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  7. #142
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    While wins certainly shouldn't be the primary factor in measuring a pitcher but there is just something about a pitcher that wins 18-20+ games a yr.

    If a guy consistently wins 18+ games a yr that means he's pitching deep into alot of games to get that many decisions which is tremendously valuable in the regular season

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    While wins certainly shouldn't be the primary factor in measuring a pitcher but there is just something about a pitcher that wins 18-20+ games a yr.

    If a guy consistently wins 18+ games a yr that means he's pitching deep into alot of games to get that many decisions which is tremendously valuable in the regular season
    Absolutely. I think wins matter and speak to success but they don't necessarily tell you how good the pitcher is.



    Ignorance is bliss

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Absolutely. I think wins matter and speak to success but they don't necessarily tell you how good the pitcher is.
    On target, imo. Wins matter as a collective team stat. Slice it any way you wish, in the final analysis it's the team with the most W's that gets the ring. More often than not the pitcher with the lower ERA will have put his team in a better position to achieve that end.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    "Fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  10. #145
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    ^ agreed

  11. #146
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    Here is a scenario I just ran across that speaks to the issue:

    A pitcher strikes out the first 14 batters he faces (4 2/3 innings). Then he gets hurt and is taken out of the game having given up no runs but having gone just 4 2/3 innings (not eligible for a win). During that time his team has scored eleven runs, but after the pitcher leaves scores no more. For the rest of the game the team uses 5 relievers, each of whom gives up 2 runs. Final score: The pitcher's team wins 11-10. So who gets the W? It's up to the scorekeeper, but the one assurance is that it can't be the starting pitcher. Didn't he pitch most effectively for the longest period of time?
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    "Fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  12. #147
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    A better statistic might be FIP, "fielding-independent pitching." It attempts to take everything out of the equation except what the pitcher himself can control.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    "Fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Here is a scenario I just ran across that speaks to the issue:

    A pitcher strikes out the first 14 batters he faces (4 2/3 innings). Then he gets hurt and is taken out of the game having given up no runs but having gone just 4 2/3 innings (not eligible for a win). During that time his team has scored eleven runs, but after the pitcher leaves scores no more. For the rest of the game the team uses 5 relievers, each of whom gives up 2 runs. Final score: The pitcher's team wins 11-10. So who gets the W? It's up to the scorekeeper, but the one assurance is that it can't be the starting pitcher. Didn't he pitch most effectively for the longest period of time?
    And the converse, pitcher A pitches for 4 innings giving up 5 runs. In the top of the fifth, his team scores 6. He goes out and gets through the Fifth. The pen comes in and shuts down the other team. He gave up 5 runs in 5 innings and its the win.



    Ignorance is bliss

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    And the converse, pitcher A pitches for 4 innings giving up 5 runs. In the top of the fifth, his team scores 6. He goes out and gets through the Fifth. The pen comes in and shuts down the other team. He gave up 5 runs in 5 innings and its the win.
    True. Would still prefer the lower ERA and FIP.

    Aren't Converse sneakers?
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    "Fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    True. Would still prefer the lower ERA and FIP.

    Aren't Converse sneakers?
    As would I.

    Lol. You scared me. I had to look up converse to make sure it meant reverse or opposite.



    Ignorance is bliss

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