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  1. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So basically you’re upset that we are more certain in our belief he did this based on the current evidence?

    As Bullseye pointed out, in civil court the standard of proof is “more likely than not”, or a tipping of the scales (51% to 49%).

    So even you believe he is flat out guilty of these acts in civil court. So really what you’re contesting is whether he’s guilty as determined by the criminal court burden of proof of beyond a reasonable doubt.

    What is your reasonable doubt at this point?
    I’m not upset by it, rather that I can believe in a civil suit one thin while separating the criminal aspect being different; yet it seems to some that line has blended to be the same thing.

    My reasonable doubt was the detail included in some of the accusations over the number of them, especially since a few of them are vague in the details with the same things being said.


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  2. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It’s not in and of itself, but it becomes a problem when that attempt at comprehension veers into possible disbelief.
    It’s not disbelief in “these women are lying” though which is what it’s being portrayed as. It’s disbelief in “how was he able to do it this many times.”

    To me there’s a distinct difference. Do you not see the difference there?


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  3. #618
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  4. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Ok? So I’m struggling to see your point here. Watsons behavior is not normal. I’m struggling to grasp for a bit how not normal this is. And that’s a problem to you that it’s taking me time to wrap my head around it?
    It's not normal to hire 40 different masseuses for massage therapy. That indicates there's some sort of issue here.

    You think it's improbable someone would do that. But the number isn't in question. That's like arguing it's improbable someone would flip a coin and get tails 7 times in a row, when talking about someone who just flipped tails 7 times in a row.

  5. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It’s not disbelief in “these women are lying” though which is what it’s being portrayed as. It’s disbelief in “how was he able to do it this many times.”

    To me there’s a distinct difference. Do you not see the difference there?
    I see the difference, and it’s two different definitions of the word.

    I’m in disbelief that Curry made 100 3’s in a row from the corner, but not in disbelief as in I don’t believe he did it, but disbelief in the more colloquial definition of “in awe”.

    To be clear: do you mean you are in awe that someone could do what he did that many times in so short a period of time or do you mean you have trouble believing factually that he did what is alleged that many times in so short a span?

  6. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I’m not upset by it, rather that I can believe in a civil suit one thin while separating the criminal aspect being different; yet it seems to some that line has blended to be the same thing.

    My reasonable doubt was the detail included in some of the accusations over the number of them, especially since a few of them are vague in the details with the same things being said.
    We’re not blending anything, it’s the same act being alleged in both the civil and criminal cases.

    Believing he committed the act means you think he violated the law, since what he is alleged to have done is illegal.

    So your reasonable doubt is about some of the specific allegations or instances. Do you have any reasonable doubt that he’s criminally guilty in at least one of the cases?

  7. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It’s not disbelief in “these women are lying” though which is what it’s being portrayed as. It’s disbelief in “how was he able to do it this many times.”

    To me there’s a distinct difference. Do you not see the difference there?


    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    This is exactly how you end up with a Brian Banks situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    At some point I’d suggest to read up on the Brian Banks story and how, even though the rape was proven to basically be extortion, he still deals with the backlash of the accusation.
    "I'm not saying these women are lying, but go read about a time when a woman was lying!"


    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    But even in that there's some strange things from this SI story:
    Why didn't she cover him up?
    "If she didn't cover him up every time he took off the sheets and towels, she was asking for it!"


    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    This is the part really bothering me. 22 women from different places find the same lawyer who managed to keep it so quiet that no one knew until he was ready to file for all 22?

    Nothing is impossible, but things are improbable.
    Except everyone knows it was 1 then 3 before going public, and all the others came afterward. Each thinking they were the only one.
    Dak: 17,634 @ 66.0%, 7.7 per att, 106+24 TD, 40 INT+34 FMB, 97.3 Rate
    Wentz: 16,811 @ 62.7%, 6.7 per att, 113+8 TD, 50 INT+58 FMB, 89.2 Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'll eat a shoe if BB is still coaching in 5 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Sticking to traditions:

    IF Wentz is a Philadelphia Eagle in 2021, he will be the starter. If not, bye bye PSD, I'll leave.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  8. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    We’re not blending anything, it’s the same act being alleged in both the civil and criminal cases.

    Believing he committed the act means you think he violated the law, since what he is alleged to have done is illegal.

    So your reasonable doubt is about some of the specific allegations or instances. Do you have any reasonable doubt that he’s criminally guilty in at least one of the cases?
    The lawyer held a fundraiser once for President Trump, so TDS dictates anything he does is to be doubted.
    Dak: 17,634 @ 66.0%, 7.7 per att, 106+24 TD, 40 INT+34 FMB, 97.3 Rate
    Wentz: 16,811 @ 62.7%, 6.7 per att, 113+8 TD, 50 INT+58 FMB, 89.2 Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'll eat a shoe if BB is still coaching in 5 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Sticking to traditions:

    IF Wentz is a Philadelphia Eagle in 2021, he will be the starter. If not, bye bye PSD, I'll leave.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  9. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    The lawyer held a fundraiser once for President Trump, so TDS dictates anything he does is to be doubted.
    I’ve noticed this (and I’m not saying Warfelg is guilty of this), but people will hide their true beliefs under the guise of “just asking questions”, where all their questions are ones designed to doubt or contradict one side of the discussion.

  10. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I see the difference, and it’s two different definitions of the word.

    I’m in disbelief that Curry made 100 3’s in a row from the corner, but not in disbelief as in I don’t believe he did it, but disbelief in the more colloquial definition of “in awe”.

    To be clear: do you mean you are in awe that someone could do what he did that many times in so short a period of time or do you mean you have trouble believing factually that he did what is alleged that many times in so short a span?
    Yes. The first one.


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  11. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Yes. The first one.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thank you for the clarification.

  12. #627
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    If these were "happy ending" ladies it would be one thing, but I find this interview compelling and powerful.

    https://lawandcrime.com/sports/my-na...st-time-video/

  13. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    It's interesting to me that this is the angle Deshaun and his lawyers are going with, as it essentially hints at prostitution, which is also illegal. If he's paying for services and claiming that everything that happened was consensual, he's admitting for paying for sexual activity. This is obviously better than sexual assault, but it's still essentially an indirect admission of a crime.


  14. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    So your last paragraph is what I’m hitting at. Like, if the intent was to keep doing this until you found a woman that would comply, then at least I can see going through so many (that sounds way worse than I intended it).

    It’s not the number of treatments he’s getting (James Harrison was notorious for spending $2.5mil a year on his body); it’s the number of different masseuses. Usually if one gets your body right (sorry I know not the best phrasing) you stick with that person (again I use the James Harrison example, he has a cupper, an acupuncturist, and a masseuse for at home and in Pittsburgh).

    Who knows. Maybe the reason why he did this was he would troll clubs for tail and willingly get it, and without it he thought he could run the same game this way. Maybe that’s why we haven’t heard anything. Maybe he did the James Harden and frequented strip clubs and doesn’t see the difference.

    And I’m not question in the timeline or if they have proof. I’m just mystified that some can pull off this much in this short of time.

    I’m just amazed no one on here had a buddy that said “I can do X of this in Y time period” and not said “there’s no way” and when they prove they can not thought “that really happened?”

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah, I think I understand what you're getting at. But if he's getting treatments once or twice a week already, and there's proof that he reached out to these women privately and paid for their services, it's 100% possible he could have pulled this crap 22+ times over seven months with different women.

    It's shocking to think he could get away with doing something that frequently, but he's really not since these women are starting to come forward and accuse him. If you think about Weinstein and how his setup worked and how long he got away with doing it, it's not that different. He had a system in place to lure attractive women in private settings and used his power to sexually assault them. And because he and Watson have all the power, and there's little evidence to prove anything happened, it's hard for them to want to come forward and make claims. Both men knew exactly what they were doing (again, assuming Deshaun did this stuff).


  15. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    It's interesting to me that this is the angle Deshaun and his lawyers are going with, as it essentially hints at prostitution, which is also illegal. If he's paying for services and claiming that everything that happened was consensual, he's admitting for paying for sexual activity. This is obviously better than sexual assault, but it's still essentially an indirect admission of a crime.
    Even further... for the women who refused he typically paid only 1/3rd of the bill.

    This implies he believes he was entitled to a handjob, blowjob and b-hole fingering as part of the massage price. And didn't pay full price because he didn't receive those "services".
    Dak: 17,634 @ 66.0%, 7.7 per att, 106+24 TD, 40 INT+34 FMB, 97.3 Rate
    Wentz: 16,811 @ 62.7%, 6.7 per att, 113+8 TD, 50 INT+58 FMB, 89.2 Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'll eat a shoe if BB is still coaching in 5 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Sticking to traditions:

    IF Wentz is a Philadelphia Eagle in 2021, he will be the starter. If not, bye bye PSD, I'll leave.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

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