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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    At this point, the facts are that Watson personally sought out nearly two dozen women (maybe more) on their Instagram accounts to perform massage services despite being an elite professional athlete with infinite medical resources at his disposal, that he asked them to perform these services in private/intimate settings, and now there are claims that he sexually assaulted them.
    AFAIK Watson has admitted there were over 50, so far 22 pressing charges at 18 not, and 10+ missing.

    Of the 18 not pressing charges at least one agrees with the 22 pressing charges, and presumably was paid to make false public statements by Watson and/or his lawyer.
    Dak: 17,634 @ 66.0%, 7.7 per att, 106+24 TD, 40 INT+34 FMB, 97.3 Rate
    Wentz: 16,811 @ 62.7%, 6.7 per att, 113+8 TD, 50 INT+58 FMB, 89.2 Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'll eat a shoe if BB is still coaching in 5 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Sticking to traditions:

    IF Wentz is a Philadelphia Eagle in 2021, he will be the starter. If not, bye bye PSD, I'll leave.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Raider View Post
    In cases like this

    Judge and jury exist and that’s how we handle it in America.

    Not random allegations being automatically assumed or stripped based on who has made the cleanest media clips or dropped subjective or one sided information.

    Some of the best parts of our culture (innocent until guilty and the right to a trial) are throw away concepts to some people.... and that’s ridiculous.
    This is a nice idea, but it's a little naive. You're operating under the assumption that we're going to get a guilty or innocent verdict at all, but we might not, and if I were a betting men, I would guess that we won't. Arguably the two biggest criminal complaints we see from professional athletes are domestic violence and sexual assault, but we usually don't get a true verdict in those cases, and they often never go to trial at all. In many cases, criminal charges are never even filed.

    Kobe Bryant? Settlement.
    Ben Roethlisberger? Settlement.

    In MLB, look at Roberto Osuna and Domingo German, two pitchers who definitely beat on their significant others. Osuna's wife left the country and refused to testify at trial, and charges were never filed against German. MLB still suspended both, and could have come down even harder. Osuna pitching in Houston drove me nuts, and I'm glad he's gone.

    If we only ever judged professional athletes on whether they were found guilty in a court of law, we would rarely ever pass judgment on anybody who actually committed crimes. These are powerful men with incredible lawyers and millions of dollars at their disposal, and they're rarely going to face criminal charges whether they committed the acts or not.


  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    March 2020 is the first accusation out there. How come no one that pre-dates that is coming forward?
    The woman who commented on Watson's behalf while privately refusing to work with him went back to 2018. Another woman who was referring these people to Watson and then covering for him said the NFLPA and team reps won't do anything. We also know other players were in on it, since Watson was referring the women to other players afterward.

    Given Texans personnel were involved in the referral process and Watson was borrowing tables from the team for home use, combined with team reps not doing anything about complaints, it is highly likely the Texans knew for at least two years.

    It's fairly likely that the "fire everyone and hire Jesus" thing going on with the Texans is because when Cal McNair took over for Bob, he found out and basically did a WTF and fired people involved in covering up for Watson. JJ Watt wanted out before this broke so he didn't get linked to it, if he knew.
    Dak: 17,634 @ 66.0%, 7.7 per att, 106+24 TD, 40 INT+34 FMB, 97.3 Rate
    Wentz: 16,811 @ 62.7%, 6.7 per att, 113+8 TD, 50 INT+58 FMB, 89.2 Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'll eat a shoe if BB is still coaching in 5 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Sticking to traditions:

    IF Wentz is a Philadelphia Eagle in 2021, he will be the starter. If not, bye bye PSD, I'll leave.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  4. #484
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    Nike cuts Deshaun Watson

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/07/nike...legations.html

    “We are deeply concerned by the disturbing allegations and have suspended Deshaun Watson. We will continue to closely monitor the situation,” Nike said in a statement.
    Dak: 17,634 @ 66.0%, 7.7 per att, 106+24 TD, 40 INT+34 FMB, 97.3 Rate
    Wentz: 16,811 @ 62.7%, 6.7 per att, 113+8 TD, 50 INT+58 FMB, 89.2 Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'll eat a shoe if BB is still coaching in 5 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Sticking to traditions:

    IF Wentz is a Philadelphia Eagle in 2021, he will be the starter. If not, bye bye PSD, I'll leave.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Raider View Post
    In cases like this

    Judge and jury exist and that’s how we handle it in America.

    Not random allegations being automatically assumed or stripped based on who has made the cleanest media clips or dropped subjective or one sided information.

    Some of the best parts of our culture (innocent until guilty and the right to a trial) are throw away concepts to some people.... and that’s ridiculous.
    You believe Jeffrey Epstein was innocent since he wasn’t proven guilty in a court of law?

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Also, and this isn’t a he’s innocent/guilty statement or anything like that but:

    I keep seeing Weinstein/Crosby put out there in the “didn’t see it coming”. Look back and realize their accusations span years/decades of abuse. In this Watson case we’re talking basically 1 year, and I don’t see why that’s being brushed aside here. March 2020 is the first accusation out there. How come no one that pre-dates that is coming forward? And COVID is more of an excuse than the reason it happened. If this is the true Watson then this behavior had to have started much earlier and didn’t escalate that quickly from didn’t to anything to being that aggressive about it.

    At least when Ben’s rape cases broke there were stories floating around Pittsburgh about how he would go out, have his guys basically kick all the men out, scout the women, then come in. Like there was definite “womanizer” vibes from Ben locally before that story broke, so even in Pittsburgh there was a feeling of “oh do now others know” rather than Houston having this “WTF” type reaction.
    As Bullseye posted, there were apparently women who declined massaging Watson because they knew he engaged in inappropriate behavior with them during sessions.

    This was apparently not a shock to the massage therapists of Houston.

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    People get judged on perception and not their actions every day. I'm not saying that's morally right; it's just a fact. So no... innocent until proven guilty is definitely not the operating principle of society. It isn't even the operating principle of the criminal system because how many cases even go to court? Like 5%? The right to a fair trial is a sham. It's physically impossible to grant everyone charged with a crime a fair trial.

    So if you want to defend Watson that's fine. I just wouldn't do it with ideals that have no bearing on reality.
    I disagree with you.

    I also think that justifying mob mentality and the desire to trash someone based on allegations as weak and inferior to better culture.

    If you want to defend that culture then do so knowing that you are making a decision to not utilize the best system because it’s “easier” to just judge someone based on perception.

  8. #488
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    Blackstone

    Better for 10 guilty men to go free than 1 innocent man suffer.

    Ben Franklin

    Better men better times

    Now it’s all TMZ emotional drivel ******** and it makes me feel very sorry for my grandkids and their kids.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Raider View Post
    Blackstone

    Better for 10 guilty men to go free than 1 innocent man suffer.

    Ben Franklin

    Better men better times

    Now it’s all TMZ emotional drivel ******** and it makes me feel very sorry for my grandkids and their kids.
    The only one appearing to be emotional is you. Also, refusing to formulate your own opinions and letting the courts do it for you isn’t noble, it’s cowardice.

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Raider View Post
    I disagree with you.

    I also think that justifying mob mentality and the desire to trash someone based on allegations as weak and inferior to better culture.

    If you want to defend that culture then do so knowing that you are making a decision to not utilize the best system because it’s “easier” to just judge someone based on perception.
    I didn't say that "innocent until proven guilty" and "right to a fair trial" aren't good concepts. I think they are. They just aren't reality.

    I also think that no woman should ever be sexually assaulted. But that's not reality either. So how do we distinguish the real cases of this happening from the comparatively, very low rate of false accusations? A good approach in my opinion is not to jump to the defense of every man getting accused of having committed sexual assault. Because statistically doing so you'll be wrong 95% of the time.

    Throughout this thread I have never said that Watson *did* in fact sexually assault all these women. I try to observe how this plays out without any bias. But I also have no power over, say, Nike cancelling their endorsement deal with Watson. Are you going to hold them accountable for judging Watson as guilty before a trial was held, and how would you do it?

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    I didn't say that "innocent until proven guilty" and "right to a fair trial" aren't good concepts. I think they are. They just aren't reality.

    I also think that no woman should ever be sexually assaulted. But that's not reality either. So how do we distinguish the real cases of this happening from the comparatively, very low rate of false accusations? A good approach in my opinion is not to jump to the defense of every man getting accused of having committed sexual assault. Because statistically doing so you'll be wrong 95% of the time.

    Throughout this thread I have never said that Watson *did* in fact sexually assault all these women. I try to observe how this plays out without any bias. But I also have no power over, say, Nike cancelling their endorsement deal with Watson. Are you going to hold them accountable for judging Watson as guilty before a trial was held, and how would you do it?
    How he asks

    Well we don’t jump to any conclusions at all.

    We investigate, present evidence, and let a group of peers utilize the evidence and testimony to make a decision.

    Those of us listening to rumors, utilizing “low false accusations rates,” and/or using anything other than testimony and evidence are absolutely welcome to have their own opinions and guesses.

    We are also welcome to laugh at those not fully educated, dare I say ignorant, opinions.

    Most of the time it’ll just be disregarded.

    One would think after years of Russiagate, MagaHat kid, Jussie Smollett, Kavanaugh nonsense would have people pumping their brakes just a little before saying that a dude should never play football again based solely on “what he’s seen so far.”

    But my faith in humans on the internet is reaaaaaaaaly low

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Raider View Post
    How he asks

    Well we don’t jump to any conclusions at all.

    We investigate, present evidence, and let a group of peers utilize the evidence and testimony to make a decision.

    Those of us listening to rumors, utilizing “low false accusations rates,” and/or using anything other than testimony and evidence are absolutely welcome to have their own opinions and guesses.

    We are also welcome to laugh at those not fully educated, dare I say ignorant, opinions.

    Most of the time it’ll just be disregarded.

    One would think after years of Russiagate, MagaHat kid, Jussie Smollett, Kavanaugh nonsense would have people pumping their brakes just a little before saying that a dude should never play football again based solely on “what he’s seen so far.”

    But my faith in humans on the internet is reaaaaaaaaly low
    You’ve certainly lowered my faith in humans on the internet.

    Also, a big lol for saying anyone who uses anything but the evidence presented are ignorant and then bringing up a bunch of unrelated incidents as evidence this may be false.

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    You’ve certainly lowered my faith in humans on the internet.

    Also, a big lol for saying anyone who uses anything but the evidence presented are ignorant and then bringing up a bunch of unrelated incidents as evidence this may be false.
    Makes sense that you don’t see the analogy and parallels.

    I get where you are coming from and it has gotta be hot wearing a helmet everywhere you go.

    GL buddy

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Raider View Post
    How he asks

    Well we don’t jump to any conclusions at all.

    We investigate, present evidence, and let a group of peers utilize the evidence and testimony to make a decision.

    Those of us listening to rumors, utilizing “low false accusations rates,” and/or using anything other than testimony and evidence are absolutely welcome to have their own opinions and guesses.

    We are also welcome to laugh at those not fully educated, dare I say ignorant, opinions.

    Most of the time it’ll just be disregarded.

    One would think after years of Russiagate, MagaHat kid, Jussie Smollett, Kavanaugh nonsense would have people pumping their brakes just a little before saying that a dude should never play football again based solely on “what he’s seen so far.”

    But my faith in humans on the internet is reaaaaaaaaly low
    I never said Watson shouldn't play football again, nor did I jump to conclusions on the political issues you mentioned. FYI I was skeptical about Russiagate from the beginning, but that's not really relevant here.

    It's interesting how you side-stepped my points with three words that barely form a sentence. You "disagree" that the right to a fair trial is practically non-existent? It's not a matter of agreement, it's reality. 95% of people charged with a crime never see a trial, but that's cool as long as we all believe in an utopian ideal? I'm not an idealist, so I don't find debating ideals particularly fruitful, as opposed to ways of actually realizing them. But you don't seem to be interested in that. Like I said, Nike judged Watson guilty and you're just fine with that? I swear Watson is going to be a lot more affected by that than what some randos think on the internet.
    Last edited by QB_Eagles; 04-07-2021 at 01:39 PM.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Raider View Post
    Makes sense that you don’t see the analogy and parallels.

    I get where you are coming from and it has gotta be hot wearing a helmet everywhere you go.

    GL buddy
    I don’t get where you’re coming from because I don’t understand the reflexive need to defend everyone accused of sexual misconduct.

    But you never did answer my question, do you believe Jeffrey Epstein was innocent because he wasn’t proven guilty in a court of law?

    I’ll need your good luck to get an answer out of you, because I know you won’t

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