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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    The league is even now?
    I said more even now, not even.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    this... there is no real skill involved in terms of a basketball play anymore... all teams do is shoot the 3 and kick out their legs for contact... There is no drawing up plays or defending the entire half court.. there is no real reason to defend the paint anymore outside of when you play the sixers/lakers/nuggets/bucks and a few others. We see guys passing up 2 on 1 layups for a 3 point shot or a guy that steals the ball and has the angle for an easy 2 point layup to just stop and chuck a 3 without anyone underneath to rebound... This isnt basketball its a shooting drill now.
    "there is no real skill involved ... anymore" ... "There is no drawing up plays or defending" ... what game are you watching? The game has changed but there are DEFINITELY plays drawn up and run and there is definitely defense being played in the half court.

    I want to get rid of the leg kick/cheap foul drawing too, and want to make defending the 3 easier, but the idea that there is no skill, no plays, and no defense is absurd.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    Get rid of defensive 3 seconds.

    To make things more even, is complicated. If we go to FIBA rules, there is true zones which the defensive 3 seconds allow. So bigs are at at disadvantage as well in a sense where lanes are always clogged and its easier to double team and there can be tools/strategies from making it harder to for guys to get to their low post position due to them having offensive 3 seconds as well.

    The game will balance itself out, when there are balanced rules. The problem with the nba is in the 90's and whatever it was tilted toward bigs and isos, nowadays its tilted toward ball handlers, and guys running off screens. Travelling is blatant. Like you said though basketball is a game of height plus skill, so in essence dominant bigs will provide the most value for the most part when its all said and done with balanced rules.
    Defensive 3 seconds isn't going to solve the problem. Guys can lay back pretty easily already. The problem with traditional rim protecting bigs isn't that they can't sit in the paint due to 3 seconds, it's that they can't sit in the paint due to teams pulling them out with bigs who can shoot. The NBA plays a 5 out offensivr style. Parking one tall dude in the middle doesn't change that. Teams will continue to screen on the perimeter until someone gets an open 3. Sitting a big back in the paint only helps that.

    I get the hand checking thing. Allowing for hand checking could mean tighter defense and tighter defense could mean less penetration and less defensive helps and rotations. I get that and it's an interesting theory, but I'm not sure that takes you to a place that improves basketball.

    I think the goal should be to continue to improve the enjoyment of the game by providing multiple paths for team building and multiple paths for team style. It's become fairly apparent that the way to win in the NBA is to collect stars and play a perimeter layups and 3s style of basketball. To me, I don't love that but the NBA clearly does. I hope they do back up the 3 pt line and possibly change the way they officiate things, like not calling fouls when the offensive player clearly initiates contact and calling travels and/or moving screens tighter.

    Side note, to me, moving screens are a bigger deal than traveling. Maybe the step back 3 travel is a big deal, but I can live with that. But the way teams can set moving screens that basically force you into switching screens and creating bad matchups is a problem. Doesn't matter how good or aggressive the on ball defender is at fighting over screens when they allow screeners to move and grab like they currently do.

  4. #139
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    Those screens Bogut and Green would commit to were so frustrating to watch. Donít know how many games Iíd start watching where Curry and Klay would fire up 3 or 4 quick threes in the first few minutes because Bogut and Green would basically be offensive lineman and just guard Curry and Klayís defenders. Boom, then itís a quick ten point lead to start the game. I wonder how much of that contributed to their success pre-KD.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Those screens Bogut and Green would commit to were so frustrating to watch. Donít know how many games Iíd start watching where Curry and Klay would fire up 3 or 4 quick threes in the first few minutes because Bogut and Green would basically be offensive lineman and just guard Curry and Klayís defenders. Boom, then itís a quick ten point lead to start the game. I wonder how much of that contributed to their success pre-KD.
    That pulling offensive lineman **** would drive me nuts


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  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I said more even now, not even.
    Than what?

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    That pulling offensive lineman **** would drive me nuts
    And the problem I was saying then and now is that they are legal. The rule is bad.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Those screens Bogut and Green would commit to were so frustrating to watch. Donít know how many games Iíd start watching where Curry and Klay would fire up 3 or 4 quick threes in the first few minutes because Bogut and Green would basically be offensive lineman and just guard Curry and Klayís defenders. Boom, then itís a quick ten point lead to start the game. I wonder how much of that contributed to their success pre-KD.
    They lived off those screens, but it was their defense that made the big difference pre-KD.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Defensive 3 seconds isn't going to solve the problem. Guys can lay back pretty easily already. The problem with traditional rim protecting bigs isn't that they can't sit in the paint due to 3 seconds, it's that they can't sit in the paint due to teams pulling them out with bigs who can shoot. The NBA plays a 5 out offensivr style. Parking one tall dude in the middle doesn't change that. Teams will continue to screen on the perimeter until someone gets an open 3. Sitting a big back in the paint only helps that.

    I get the hand checking thing. Allowing for hand checking could mean tighter defense and tighter defense could mean less penetration and less defensive helps and rotations. I get that and it's an interesting theory, but I'm not sure that takes you to a place that improves basketball.

    I think the goal should be to continue to improve the enjoyment of the game by providing multiple paths for team building and multiple paths for team style. It's become fairly apparent that the way to win in the NBA is to collect stars and play a perimeter layups and 3s style of basketball. To me, I don't love that but the NBA clearly does. I hope they do back up the 3 pt line and possibly change the way they officiate things, like not calling fouls when the offensive player clearly initiates contact and calling travels and/or moving screens tighter.

    Side note, to me, moving screens are a bigger deal than traveling. Maybe the step back 3 travel is a big deal, but I can live with that. But the way teams can set moving screens that basically force you into switching screens and creating bad matchups is a problem. Doesn't matter how good or aggressive the on ball defender is at fighting over screens when they allow screeners to move and grab like they currently do.
    Good post. The problem with the hand checking was that it made shooting and movement TOO hard. We need a balance, and it will probably take a few small changes, wait a few years, a few small changes, wait a few years, etc to have it make sense. Big sweeping changes usually backfire.

  10. #145
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    The main thing they need to work on is to figure out how to deal with these buyouts. The Nets and Lakers got better at the trade deadline without giving up anything. Whereas teams like the Heat, Bulls, Nuggets, Celtics had to give up pieces to get players.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuban Linx View Post
    The main thing they need to work on is to figure out how to deal with these buyouts. The Nets and Lakers got better at the trade deadline without giving up anything. Whereas teams like the Heat, Bulls, Nuggets, Celtics had to give up pieces to get players.
    The same kind of market exists in MLB and NHL too. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

  12. #147
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    NBA is the best product in sports. Having more skilled players isn't something I view as a problem. I'm not a fan of the parity in the NFL. In basketball, the best organizations get the best results. It creates the best storylines and the most drama. Dynasties are good for sports.
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  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    They lived off those screens, but it was their defense that made the big difference pre-KD.
    And those nut shots. Donít forget those nut shots.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Defensive 3 seconds isn't going to solve the problem. Guys can lay back pretty easily already. The problem with traditional rim protecting bigs isn't that they can't sit in the paint due to 3 seconds, it's that they can't sit in the paint due to teams pulling them out with bigs who can shoot. The NBA plays a 5 out offensivr style. Parking one tall dude in the middle doesn't change that. Teams will continue to screen on the perimeter until someone gets an open 3. Sitting a big back in the paint only helps that.
    .
    Its not only bigs that can benefit from the defensive 3 seconds. The rule gives tools for coaches to scheme around protecting the paint and clogging it in various ways.

    In Europe there are stretch bigs as well and the euroleague teams average under 96 points per 48. Some more than that, others less. Teams also play a stretched out spacey style.

    Hand-checking is more over-rated. College and Europe don't have hand checking and scoring is still lower by a decent margin.

    If you bring back the 3 seconds there will be more defensive oriented teams like Memphis and the Pistons of last decade.

    I think teams will still score just based on lack of effort and too many meaningless games in the nba. Rule changes will limit more because there will be more defensive oriented teams. In college and euroleague every game seems to matter. If games matter more, teams will tighten up on the defense on all levels as well. Maybe that's just as important as a 3 second/handcheck change.

    Luka said 3 seconds is the biggest reason why its harder to score in europe.
    Last edited by Heediot; 04-07-2021 at 04:04 AM.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    And the problem I was saying then and now is that they are legal. The rule is bad.
    Yeah you are still annoying


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

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