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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Example the league is extremely 3 point heavy which works but it kills the majority of bigs so what options do we have if we even need them to find a middle ground between lets say the 80s/90s and how the league currently is? We have the Jokics/Embiids/AD but a ton of bigs are being wasted because of the 3 point barrage so what if we took away the 3 second violation?


    Would this help or is it a bad idea? What other ideas would be ideal to bring back more inside play not just from centers but 2 point shots that are now frowned upon.
    Allowing bigs to camp is the paint is massive. Just look at ncaa ball. Its harder for ball handlers to manipulate defenses like they do now to such an unfair advantage. LeBron, Doncic, Hardern etc. all know how to control the game (to a ridic level)because of the no 3 second rule. Going to the basket would be harder, and you can hide and manipulate ways to help bigs on defense more.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Just bring back hand checking.


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    3 second rule will have a bigger effect imo. Hand checking does help but the second rule is more vital. In the euroleague hand checking is technically out lawed, but they have 3 second rule and games are way more defensive. Same with college. Sure nba spacing and athletic/skilled drivers are on another level vs. college or europe, but the rule change can help masks defenders and allow more leeway for bigs at the nba level a well.

    I think hand checking is a little more over-rated, perimeter defense is about moving your feet first. team defense is about iq and awareness.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    That NBA was BAD when the hand checking was rampant and Jordan wasn't playing it's why they banned it.
    I think the evolved game and spacing will improve scoring even with the return of hand checking. It was more of a iso fest in the past. Team would still be able to hit 100 on average if they brought back hand-checking only with how analytics and the game has evolved through the drive and kick and spacing.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    I think the evolved game and spacing will improve scoring even with the return of hand checking. It was more of a iso fest in the past. Team would still be able to hit 100 on average if they brought back hand-checking only with how analytics and the game has evolved through the drive and kick and spacing.
    So much this. Look now a days how the triangle offense is so outdated and it was cutting edge in the 90ís.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    Allowing bigs to camp is the paint is massive. Just look at ncaa ball. Its harder for ball handlers to manipulate defenses like they do now to such an unfair advantage. LeBron, Doncic, Hardern etc. all know how to control the game (to a ridic level)because of the no 3 second rule. Going to the basket would be harder, and you can hide and manipulate ways to help bigs on defense more.
    The problem with that is that the few teams that have dominant bigs would then dominate the league, and skilled bigs are much more rare than skilled wings. There is a reason they added the rules to move the bigs out, and it was to make the league more even.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    I think the evolved game and spacing will improve scoring even with the return of hand checking. It was more of a iso fest in the past. Team would still be able to hit 100 on average if they brought back hand-checking only with how analytics and the game has evolved through the drive and kick and spacing.
    The hand checking resulted in a much more physical game which is not what the NBA or the players want.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    So much this. Look now a days how the triangle offense is so outdated and it was cutting edge in the 90ís.
    Going back is not the solution. The triple-post (triangle offense) by itself isn't as valuable anymore because defenses learned the scheme to stop it. That said there are still plays from the triangle run every day in the NBA, it's just that they have morphed a little and the way they get into them has changed.

    That and 3 point shooting volume change the offensive schemes.

    But there are ways of giving the defense a little back without going back in time.

    How to make post play more valuable I don't know.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The problem with that is that the few teams that have dominant bigs would then dominate the league, and skilled bigs are much more rare than skilled wings. There is a reason they added the rules to move the bigs out, and it was to make the league more even.
    Yeah the league is all about money, so right now there is a watered down product with the rule changes and all kinds of manipulation.

    But ideally, if the most dominant player(s) in general are bigs, than that's how it should be. It would be nice to have rules that allow players of all kinds to showcase what they have, instead of watering down the league for perimeter players.

    The goat rankings would also change, because these inflated stats that some of these guys are conjuring wouldn't be as eye popping. Doncic is a elite talent but nowhere near top 10 all time level to me. Some people are even considering his trajectory toward nearly goat level lmao. Make the game showcase who is truly great, for objectivity.

    I prefer fiba rules ideally. They make rules for the betterment/purity of the game, instead of profits and revenue to increase franchise values and tv money.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    Yeah the league is all about money, so right now there is a watered down product with the rule changes and all kinds of manipulation.

    But ideally, if the most dominant player(s) in general are bigs, than that's how it should be. It would be nice to have rules that allow players of all kinds to showcase what they have, instead of watering down the league for perimeter players.

    The goat rankings would also change, because these inflated stats that some of these guys are conjuring wouldn't be as eye popping. Doncic is a elite talent but nowhere near top 10 all time level to me. Some people are even considering his trajectory toward nearly goat level lmao. Make the game showcase who is truly great, for objectivity.

    I prefer fiba rules ideally. They make rules for the betterment/purity of the game, instead of profits and revenue to increase franchise values and tv money.
    Bigs are not the most dominant because of the rules changes to make them less dominant. The point I was trying to make is that this thread is about making it MORE even ... if the rules used to reduce the dominance of bigs were rolled back it would not be more even it would be less even.

    It's not that bigs are the most skilled, just that the NBA game by it's very nature favors size and size is not a skill and the NBA sells it's product about explosive athletics and extreme skill.

    I like the fiba rules too ... and they used to have a significantly wider key than the NBA to make the bigs move further from the basket, now the FIBA adjusted to match the NBA key.

    Which 3 second rule do you want to do away with? The offensive one or the defensive one? One is REALLY old the other is just vintage.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Get rod of basket interference. Let those bigs tip the ball in while its on the rim.
    doesn't work because then players can knock the ball off the rim on defense.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiG View Post
    doesn't work because then players can knock the ball off the rim on defense.
    If they can do it clean that's fine. It's part of the international game and doesn't really cause major issues. It does mean that rebounding is more important and more a big-man's game.

  12. #132
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Bigs are not the most dominant because of the rules changes to make them less dominant. The point I was trying to make is that this thread is about making it MORE even ... if the rules used to reduce the dominance of bigs were rolled back it would not be more even it would be less even.

    It's not that bigs are the most skilled, just that the NBA game by it's very nature favors size and size is not a skill and the NBA sells it's product about explosive athletics and extreme skill.

    I like the fiba rules too ... and they used to have a significantly wider key than the NBA to make the bigs move further from the basket, now the FIBA adjusted to match the NBA key.

    Which 3 second rule do you want to do away with? The offensive one or the defensive one? One is REALLY old the other is just vintage.
    Get rid of defensive 3 seconds.

    To make things more even, is complicated. If we go to FIBA rules, there is true zones which the defensive 3 seconds allow. So bigs are at at disadvantage as well in a sense where lanes are always clogged and its easier to double team and there can be tools/strategies from making it harder to for guys to get to their low post position due to them having offensive 3 seconds as well.

    The game will balance itself out, when there are balanced rules. The problem with the nba is in the 90's and whatever it was tilted toward bigs and isos, nowadays its tilted toward ball handlers, and guys running off screens. Travelling is blatant. Like you said though basketball is a game of height plus skill, so in essence dominant bigs will provide the most value for the most part when its all said and done with balanced rules.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    Get rid of defensive 3 seconds.

    To make things more even, is complicated. If we go to FIBA rules, there is true zones which the defensive 3 seconds allow. So bigs are at at disadvantage as well in a sense where lanes are always clogged and its easier to double team and there can be tools/strategies from making it harder to for guys to get to their low post position due to them having offensive 3 seconds as well.

    The game will balance itself out, when there are balanced rules. The problem with the nba is in the 90's and whatever it was tilted toward bigs and isos, nowadays its tilted toward ball handlers, and guys running off screens. Travelling is blatant. Like you said though basketball is a game of height plus skill, so in essence dominant bigs will provide the most value for the most part when its all said and done with balanced rules.
    The defensive 3 second rule is the merely vintage one ... 20 years old now. I'm okay with it being gone.

    I am not communicating clearly I think. Because skilled size is rare, anything that give more favor to skilled size is going to make the league less even not more. The league is more even with size being devalued.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The defensive 3 second rule is the merely vintage one ... 20 years old now. I'm okay with it being gone.

    I am not communicating clearly I think. Because skilled size is rare, anything that give more favor to skilled size is going to make the league less even not more. The league is more even with size being devalued.
    The league is even now?

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    The league is even now?
    this... there is no real skill involved in terms of a basketball play anymore... all teams do is shoot the 3 and kick out their legs for contact... There is no drawing up plays or defending the entire half court.. there is no real reason to defend the paint anymore outside of when you play the sixers/lakers/nuggets/bucks and a few others. We see guys passing up 2 on 1 layups for a 3 point shot or a guy that steals the ball and has the angle for an easy 2 point layup to just stop and chuck a 3 without anyone underneath to rebound... This isnt basketball its a shooting drill now.

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