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  1. #256
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    I doubt it was 5/70, I can see 3/70 as an offer

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
    It's being reported by Ken Rosenthal. He's been the best in the business for a decade. I doubt he's pulling those numbers out of his ***. He wouldn't report that without it being solid information.

    5/$70m is what he reported. Mooney has also reposted that article. Mooney as the Cubs beat for the Athletic. Its 5/$70m unless we hear otherwise and there's little reason to dispute it.

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  2. #257
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    Oct 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    It's being reported by Ken Rosenthal. He's been the best in the business for a decade. I doubt he's pulling those numbers out of his ***. He wouldn't report that without it being solid information.

    5/$70m is what he reported. Mooney has also reposted that article. Mooney as the Cubs beat for the Athletic. Its 5/$70m unless we hear otherwise and there's little reason to dispute it.

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    Curious what number what make you comfortable, 1908?

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD94 View Post
    Curious what number what make you comfortable, 1908?
    I think 5/$100m or so is fair. Rizzo probably is worth less then that on the field, but everything he's given to the franchise and meant to the team through good and bad times...is worth a bit of overpay. Most of the time I'm a "play on the field determines value" but Rizzo (while not "legendary") has more clout and sits in a rare spot where the Cubs should do right by him in this situation. They also have a lot of flexibility in those 5 years with their young players about to hit in thst range. It signals to the franchise, fans, and young players that the franchise takes care of its faces. This is different than Baez because I think Rizzo will age better, especially with the DH coming. 1b also isn't this super easy position everyone thinks it's replaceable. Hell, the Cubs have 1 somewhat 1b prospect in the entire system; and he's 3-4 years away. They have zero internal replacements.

    Players talk. They see. 5/$70m is a bad look. They're getting dragged by everyone right now and deservedly so. This was how you can not kill your finances and get good will. They have done much of the opposite with this.

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    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 03-29-2021 at 10:50 PM.

  4. #259
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    Jun 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Well Rizzo apparently did say they were still far apart in talks. Those aren't really serious offers. I've never seen the Cubs extend anyone for anything near FA rates. They seem allergic.
    The thing is, they've been right not to with just about all of them. Jake, KB, Javy would all look like disasters right now if they had extended them. Rizzo at 25 per starting at 32 y/o screams red flag to me. Personally I hope they don't capitulate too much.

    And I'm seeing too many people chalk up the DH as an inevitability in the next couple years and truthfully im not so sure we see it. Manfred likes his imbalanced weird-*** league. To not even have it this year speaks volumes to me.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    The thing is, they've been right not to with just about all of them. Jake, KB, Javy would all look like disasters right now if they had extended them. Rizzo at 25 per starting at 32 y/o screams red flag to me. Personally I hope they don't capitulate too much.

    And I'm seeing too many people chalk up the DH as an inevitability in the next couple years and truthfully im not so sure we see it. Manfred likes his imbalanced weird-*** league. To not even have it this year speaks volumes to me.
    The only reason they don't have it this year is because the owners backed themselves into a corner where they refused to act like it wasn't a real concession and held firm.

    It's not 100% going to be in the next CBA but it's like 97% going to be in there. The owners will "give" it to the union as some sort of "concession" to get another thing. It's a very easy give on their part (this isn't a big issue for owners as it protects investments).

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  6. #261
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    4 years for $70,5 yrs for 85-90.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I think 5/$100m or so is fair. Rizzo probably is worth less then that on the field, but everything he's given to the franchise and meant to the team through good and bad times...is worth a bit of overpay. Most of the time I'm a "play on the field determines value" but Rizzo (while not "legendary") has more clout and sits in a rare spot where the Cubs should do right by him in this situation. They also have a lot of flexibility in those 5 years with their young players about to hit in thst range. It signals to the franchise, fans, and young players that the franchise takes care of its faces. This is different than Baez because I think Rizzo will age better, especially with the DH coming. 1b also isn't this super easy position everyone thinks it's replaceable. Hell, the Cubs have 1 somewhat 1b prospect in the entire system; and he's 3-4 years away. They have zero internal replacements.

    Players talk. They see. 5/$70m is a bad look. They're getting dragged by everyone right now and deservedly so. This was how you can not kill your finances and get good will. They have done much of the opposite with this.

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk
    I like 5/100 too. I misspoke earlier as I thought 5/70 was where it started and I thought there would be enough wiggle room to get to the correct number. That doesnít seem to be the case now. I canít really disagree with any of what you said though. Iím not giving him Goldschmidt money just because of what he means to the franchise, but I also donít mind a slight over pay as a ďthank youĒ for what heís meant to us. I think thereís a happy medium in there for everybody.

  8. #263
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD94 View Post
    I like 5/100 too. I misspoke earlier as I thought 5/70 was where it started and I thought there would be enough wiggle room to get to the correct number. That doesnít seem to be the case now. I canít really disagree with any of what you said though. Iím not giving him Goldschmidt money just because of what he means to the franchise, but I also donít mind a slight over pay as a ďthank youĒ for what heís meant to us. I think thereís a happy medium in there for everybody.
    The 5/100 would be a serious offer, I can't see Rizzo accepting less than that nor should he, and he could possibly get a bit more than that per year on FA market though probably not given the market and how . If they're 30 million apart that's a lot. If the Cubs were serious they could offer 4/80 with team options for a 5th and maybe 6th year, or have the options be automatic based on certain performance incentives.

    For comparison, Aramis Ramirez declined rapidly after age 34, Derrek Lee after 33, Miguel Cabrera after 33, Joey Votto after 33. I'm not sure the aging stats but there's probably somewhere around a 75% chance a new Rizzo contract becomes a major liability after the 2nd year. I get the DH helping cushion the back concerns but an old mediocre hitter is still that. So the question is would we be willing to risk having an 1B/DH hitting ~15 HR/.330 OBP/.415 SLG in the last year or 2 of the contract in order to help us better contend in the 1st two years or so of the contract? We could also possibly make a trade for an 1B using one of our prospects.

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    The 5/100 would be a serious offer, I can't see Rizzo accepting less than that nor should he, and he could possibly get a bit more than that per year on FA market though probably not given the market and how . If they're 30 million apart that's a lot. If the Cubs were serious they could offer 4/80 with team options for a 5th and maybe 6th year, or have the options be automatic based on certain performance incentives.

    For comparison, Aramis Ramirez declined rapidly after age 34, Derrek Lee after 33, Miguel Cabrera after 33, Joey Votto after 33. I'm not sure the aging stats but there's probably somewhere around a 75% chance a new Rizzo contract becomes a major liability after the 2nd year. I get the DH helping cushion the back concerns but an old mediocre hitter is still that. So the question is would we be willing to risk having an 1B/DH hitting ~15 HR/.330 OBP/.415 SLG in the last year or 2 of the contract in order to help us better contend in the 1st two years or so of the contract? We could also possibly make a trade for an 1B using one of our prospects.
    Realistically you should at least get 3 more good years out of Rizzo. Even if you give him 5 years, it wonít handcuff us financially because we donít have any guaranteed money committed after 2023 I donít believe.

  10. #265
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    So, we are going to **** this up too huh?

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I think 5/$100m or so is fair. Rizzo probably is worth less then that on the field, but everything he's given to the franchise and meant to the team through good and bad times...is worth a bit of overpay. Most of the time I'm a "play on the field determines value" but Rizzo (while not "legendary") has more clout and sits in a rare spot where the Cubs should do right by him in this situation. They also have a lot of flexibility in those 5 years with their young players about to hit in thst range. It signals to the franchise, fans, and young players that the franchise takes care of its faces. This is different than Baez because I think Rizzo will age better, especially with the DH coming. 1b also isn't this super easy position everyone thinks it's replaceable. Hell, the Cubs have 1 somewhat 1b prospect in the entire system; and he's 3-4 years away. They have zero internal replacements.

    Players talk. They see. 5/$70m is a bad look. They're getting dragged by everyone right now and deservedly so. This was how you can not kill your finances and get good will. They have done much of the opposite with this.

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk
    Completely agree. In the case of Rizzo he was severely underpaid for his contributions during his current contract. And its not just his numbers and his defense, you have to factor in his leadership. While I get the ďonly pay for going forward, not past contributions ď its not always that simple. In Rizzoís case other factors should be considered, the lowball contract he signed allowed Theo to sign a plethora of bums who made way more than Rizzo. Compare his contributions to Heyward and their pay, itís sickening. And a 5 year contract in the 20-22 mil per year area is not out of the park where he couldnít provide value for its length. Its a terrible look to just flush the toilet and dump everyone, Rizzo is the one guy you take care of and keep a Cub. And also, you need to look at the overall payroll. If you are dumping everyone then we are back to the old Cubs, keep payroll to a minimum and lose because Cub fans will support no matter what.

  12. #267
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    So, we are going to **** this up too huh?
    Weíve already ****ed this up. Lol


    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  13. #268
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    Nov 2014
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    12,768

    2021 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JD94 View Post
    Realistically you should at least get 3 more good years out of Rizzo. Even if you give him 5 years, it wonít handcuff us financially because we donít have any guaranteed money committed after 2023 I donít believe.
    Itís hard to tell when a player will fall off. Pujols last 3 win season was his age 32 year (probably). Miggyís last one was at age 33. Votto had one at 35. Goldschmidt just had a great short season last year at 32, but his age 31 year was down a lot from his norm, while still being good. Those guys were all better than Rizzo through age 31. A few had health issues but Rizzo has had the annual back injury for a few years now. Itís hard to tell how that impacts him as he gets older.

    I guess Iím good with 5/100 for all the reasons 1908 laid out, but there is a real chance that Rizzo falls off very quickly and that becomes bad money 40% of the way through the contract. If Rizzo were a free agent from another team I would probably not want the Cubs to give him 5/100, so itís a stretch.

    I think there is a very good chance that the Cubs are the high bidder on Rizzo next winter even if he gets to free agency so Iím not too worried about the drama yesterday. I donít expect that other teams will offer him 9 figures, but itís possible.
    Last edited by CP_414; 03-30-2021 at 12:05 PM.

  14. #269
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    Jan 2011
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    5,269
    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    Weíve already ****ed this up. Lol

    Only thing we ****ed up is not trading bryant sooner. And it will be another mistake to not trade rizzo sooner if he walks.

    I donít give a **** if they were key pieces for the WS. Thank you! Definitely appreciate it! But you still gotta play well. And we should only be paying for future performance. The goal is now to win another WS soon as possible. Bryant and rizzo on this team at the price the player wants does nothing but hurt us.

    Yes I also blame Theo and rickets. No reason we canít field a better team and better plan. But playing this staring contest isnít helping.

    At this point we are 2-3 years from an exciting team.

  15. #270
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chicago land
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    14,782
    5 year $100 mil for a 30+ year old 1B with a bad back?

    Nah, I'm good.

    I love Rizz as much as the next guy but that seems like an overpay to me.

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