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  1. #16
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    And before anyone says anything I said it when the trade went down...It's NOT second guessing!!

  2. #17
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    Feb 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    Rick Hahn spoke of the versatility of the roles Kopech and Crochet will play, while saying that they are obviously looked at as future front line starters, but this year, they want them to play big roles for us in October.

    “As a team with fairly lofty expectations, we want [Kopech] strong and contributing through October,” Hahn said. “So we have to be a little bit creative about how we're going to use him in order to get him helping us in Chicago and continuing his development and finishing the year strong and able to contribute, ideally, to a World Series championship. Long term, we still view him as a premium starter and look forward to him fulfilling that potential in a White Sox uniform over the next several years.”

    Spoke about Kopech as an opener, as well as the possibility of both of them being finishers similar to Urias for the Dodgers.

    “You have a long-term goal in mind, and you have short-term things you're trying to accomplish, and you want to balance those two,” Hahn said. “Long term, we are trying to balance a little bit in development of premium talent with the idea that it’s important to win as many games [as we can] this season and have guys fresh in October.”

    Kopech will have an innings limit, as neither he nor Crochet have that important innings base under them. They aren’t so much limits as much as Chicago's plan to have a high-impact component at his best going into September and October.

    https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/mi...roles-for-2021

    This is exactly the **** I want to hear. Hahn mentioned 13 arms. It sounds like those arms are going to be:

    Gio
    Keuchel
    Lynn
    Cease
    Rodon
    Lopez
    Kopech
    Crochet
    Foster
    Heuer
    Marshall
    Bummer
    Hendriks

    If we go the opener route for our 5th, which is exactly what we should do, you can use Kopech in that role at times, but instead of fully committing him to just a couple early innings, we can use him in some high leverage spots prior to our 5th rotation spot, in which case Rodon and Lopez can pick up the slack as the opener. Crochet and Kopech being used as 2-3 inning finishers like Urias would also be a huge help for Preserving Bummer and Hendriks throughout the season. We could get away with less b2b's for those guys.

    Looking at that group of 13 arms, I'm fully confident in our pitching staff going into this season. A good coach will know exactly what to do with these guys to get the most out of everyone without burning guys out.

    Then come May when Fry returns, how does that 13-arm pen look?
    Wenn Sie dies lesen durch elektronische Übersetzung, Sie sind jetzt noch lahm als Sie waren als Sie zum ersten Mal las und verstand es nicht.

  3. #18
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    According to TLR ...Kopech was the most impressive on day one of throwing...Used "electric" to describe his stuff!!!
    Hmmmmm.....

  4. #19
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    If one of Rodon and Lopez are starting the season in the rotation and not Kopech and Cease,we will have a problem! If Kopech keeps throwing like this, no way should they protect him by sending him down. And yes I know it was a 1st bullpen sesssion, but I do not think TLR impresses easy, for him to say that is pretty significant...

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bainsy View Post
    If one of Rodon and Lopez are starting the season in the rotation and not Kopech and Cease,we will have a problem! If Kopech keeps throwing like this, no way should they protect him by sending him down. And yes I know it was a 1st bullpen sesssion, but I do not think TLR impresses easy, for him to say that is pretty significant...
    I think he starts the season in the Majors, but it'll be in a hybrid role. Whether that be opener or finisher. That'll help keep his innings down, but still get massive value out of his explosive arm, while warming his arm up for a postseason run.

    I see us using an opener for the 5th spot whether it be Kopech, Crochet, Lopez, Rodon.

    Lopez and Rodon will have short leashes in all likelihood, with guys like Fry, when he's healthy, and Cordero probably stepping into the pen if Lopez and/or Rodon suck it up.

  6. #21
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    I honestly think the deal that Tatis got makes Hahn and the contracts he's doled out (even going back including Sale, Q, Eaton) look that much better.

  7. #22
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    Im not sure what you mean? Are you saying because he traded him he now doesn't have to pay him? Or it could be taken as well..... Robert and Jimenez are not as good as Tatis? The Sale contract was a great one for the Sox but no way was he getting 300 mill........

  8. #23
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    I think the Tatis deal is a win for the Padres....Not sure why Tatis didn't want to test FA at say 29 years old and do a shorter deal now, like Trout did with Angels....

  9. #24
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    Jun 2005
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    I’m not saying Tatis Jr isn’t a very good player, but $340 mil is a lot for a player with less than 1 full year of MLB track record. The trade off that the Padres had to make was rolling the dice on a lot of money and a lot of years, to be able to get to an AAV that they could afford . If they went shorter or waited, they would have probably lost him to free agency. This locks him in... for better or worse.

    In looking back at the Sox trade when it happened, very few had any issue with what the Sox gave up for Shields. Tatis had not even played a minor league game yet for the Sox. On a MLBTR poll at the time, 20% thought the Sox lost the trade and a much higher % thought SD lost the deal.

    My issue at the time (I have been on here since 2005), was that the Sox were even giving up prospects and making a trade for Shields for a team that had no chance to go anywhere, and should have already blown it up and started the rebuild. The Sox mistake at the time wasn’t necessarily the trade itself (of course with hindsight we now see otherwise), but in their strategy.

  10. #25
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    “I feel like if we get him to where we see him going, this guy could be a Cy Young finalist. He could possibly be a Cy Young winner,” Grandal said Thursday. “He’s got the tools to do it, there’s no doubt on that. Now it just comes down to the process and making sure he gets to do and sees the vision that we have for him, and the future is only going to dictate whether we can get him to be what we want him to be or not.”

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/2/...s-catcher-says

    This is basically what some of us have been saying. Good to hear it from Grandal, who knows a thing or two, because he's seen a thing or two.

    Cease has the upside to be better than Lucas Giolito, and that's not a bold fan boy statement. His stuff is actually better. It's just a matter of mastering the craft. From a career trajectory and numbers standpoint, Cease is on a similar path as Giolito, just 1 year behind. Gio's 1st full year at 23 is right on par with Cease's numbers through 24. Gio had almost double Cease's innings pitched at that point also.

    Gio
    6.13 ERA
    1.47 WHIP
    173.1 IP
    SO/9 6.5

    Cease
    5.00 ERA
    1.50 WHIP
    131.1 IP
    SO/9 8.6

    I took Gio's 1st full season, which was his 3rd season with MLB experience, and Cease's entire MLB career. The only thing Gio was slightly better on was WHIP by .03. If Cease makes a jump in K/Per like Gio did going 6.5 to 11.6 to 12.1, you can make a case for some massive K/Per numbers for Cease in the coming seasons. This is our 4th starter, with the same upside as our Ace. With 2 future starters in Kopech and Crochet with higher upside then both of Gio and Cease. That is potentially scary AF!!!

  11. #26
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    It's crazy to think we are considered World Series contenders now, when our highest upside Starting Pitchers are still probably 2 years away from seeing that potential, and our most complete power/contact hitter, Vaughn, probably a year or 2 from being a key contributor. This next half decade could and should be the golden era of White Sox Baseball!!!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bainsy View Post
    Im not sure what you mean? Are you saying because he traded him he now doesn't have to pay him? Or it could be taken as well..... Robert and Jimenez are not as good as Tatis? The Sale contract was a great one for the Sox but no way was he getting 300 mill........
    Nothing to do with the trade.

    Everything you do with him getting 14/340 contract after 143 games.

    Hahn is over here doing contracts for like 8/78 (Eloy including options) or 8/88 (LouBob including options) or 6/25 (TA) or 6/90 (Moncada)

    Tatis alone cost pretty much the same annually as TA, Eloy, and Robert combined.

  13. #28
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    2021 White Sox Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
    I’m not saying Tatis Jr isn’t a very good player, but $340 mil is a lot for a player with less than 1 full year of MLB track record. The trade off that the Padres had to make was rolling the dice on a lot of money and a lot of years, to be able to get to an AAV that they could afford . If they went shorter or waited, they would have probably lost him to free agency. This locks him in... for better or worse.

    In looking back at the Sox trade when it happened, very few had any issue with what the Sox gave up for Shields. Tatis had not even played a minor league game yet for the Sox. On a MLBTR poll at the time, 20% thought the Sox lost the trade and a much higher % thought SD lost the deal.

    My issue at the time (I have been on here since 2005), was that the Sox were even giving up prospects and making a trade for Shields for a team that had no chance to go anywhere, and should have already blown it up and started the rebuild. The Sox mistake at the time wasn’t necessarily the trade itself (of course with hindsight we now see otherwise), but in their strategy.
    They couldn’t lose him to FA for like 5 more years. I’m really struggling to see why they did this deal right now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #29
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    Jun 2005
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    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    “I feel like if we get him to where we see him going, this guy could be a Cy Young finalist. He could possibly be a Cy Young winner,” Grandal said Thursday. “He’s got the tools to do it, there’s no doubt on that. Now it just comes down to the process and making sure he gets to do and sees the vision that we have for him, and the future is only going to dictate whether we can get him to be what we want him to be or not.”

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/2/...s-catcher-says

    This is basically what some of us have been saying. Good to hear it from Grandal, who knows a thing or two, because he's seen a thing or two.

    Cease has the upside to be better than Lucas Giolito, and that's not a bold fan boy statement. His stuff is actually better. It's just a matter of mastering the craft. From a career trajectory and numbers standpoint, Cease is on a similar path as Giolito, just 1 year behind. Gio's 1st full year at 23 is right on par with Cease's numbers through 24. Gio had almost double Cease's innings pitched at that point also.

    Gio
    6.13 ERA
    1.47 WHIP
    173.1 IP
    SO/9 6.5

    Cease
    5.00 ERA
    1.50 WHIP
    131.1 IP
    SO/9 8.6

    I took Gio's 1st full season, which was his 3rd season with MLB experience, and Cease's entire MLB career. The only thing Gio was slightly better on was WHIP by .03. If Cease makes a jump in K/Per like Gio did going 6.5 to 11.6 to 12.1, you can make a case for some massive K/Per numbers for Cease in the coming seasons. This is our 4th starter, with the same upside as our Ace. With 2 future starters in Kopech and Crochet with higher upside then both of Gio and Cease. That is potentially scary AF!!!
    Cease actually had a 4.01 era last season, which is very respectable. I still don’t understand using Cease in relief for game 2, to save Dunning for game 3 just to take him out after 3 batters.

  15. #30
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    Jun 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez View Post
    They couldn’t lose him to FA for like 5 more years. I’m really struggling to see why they did this deal right now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Every year they would have waited, his AAV would have sky rocketed, along with increased odds of Tatis testing free agency. I’m not saying I agree with the move, but that is probably their strategy assuming they think he is or is well on his way to being a top 5 player in the game.

    A little early for my taste.

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