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  1. #91
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    Brett Gardner's deal with the #Yankees is official. It's a a two-year, $5.15 million contract. He will earn $1.85 million in 2021 with a $1 million signing bonus. He has a $2.3 million player option for 2022. If he declines, Yankees have a $7.15M option with a $1.15M buyout.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    Correct. No one is paying 4 million dollars, in this market, for a 4th/5th outfielder, and especially not one closing in on 40 years old. Kevin Pillar is a starter and he got 3.2 million aav.



    Yes, he received 1.5 million his last year in 2006, which is precisely what i said, this however doesn't address your claim that Bernie received an offer from the yankees for 2 million dollars the following year, and turning that down. That never happened. He was offered a minor league contract. Those are the facts, as they were reported at the time.

    Also, how was the 1.5 million considered salary arbitration when he was way past his initial six years of control as a player? Bernie was a free agent again at the age of 37. Same as brett gardner. Salary arbitration typically takes place after your first 3 full seasons or the equivalent in service time as been played and lasts for 3 more seasons after that. You are a free agent after that!





    It most definitely is, Gardner's WAR has never dropped below a 3.2 on baseball reference, this despite being a league average hitter for most of his career. As a matter of fact, 3.2 was the lowest his war has ever been, as a full time starter, and that was when his wRC+ was below 90, which is way below average. Gardner's greatest asset is his fielding in LF. It only makes sense that his WAR would be skewed due to this.
    Going by fangraphs his WAR has dropped below 3. Of course his WAR is helped by defense and baserunning. But since he became a starter, he produced an above average wRC+ in 8 out of 11 seasons. He is just an all around solid player who grades out positively across the board which leads to a solid WAR.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLES3658 View Post
    Going by fangraphs his WAR has dropped below 3. Of course his WAR is helped by defense and baserunning. But since he became a starter, he produced an above average wRC+ in 8 out of 11 seasons. He is just an all around solid player who grades out positively across the board which leads to a solid WAR.
    hard to argue with this

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    The salary arbitration was a direct quote that was written in the article, as being offered by the Yankees to Williams. Based on the rules at the time, it extended the negotiating window.
    i have never heard of such a thing because arbitration isn't some tool to be randomy used for such purposes when dealing with free agents. Someone correct me if I'm wrong because that doesn't sound right at all.

    Ultimately it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, Gardner is being treated very differently compared to Wiliams, so saying Gardner deserves 5 million or more, much less 4 million, because he's a "legacy" player for the yankees when Williams was easily a much more impactful player for this franchise is completely ignoring how another "legacy" player was treated.

    As further evidence as to the prerferential treatment that Gardner receives, just look at how quickly Boone replaced Frazier in the playoffs. Frazier, during the month of September had a 25 point decline in his BA and a 10 point decline in his OBP, but was still doing well and had a .854 OPS for the month. Gardner's OPS during that same month was .874. On the strength of just those 20 points, Gardner displaced Frazier in the playoffs. Boone basically forgot everything Frazier did during the season, including the clutch hitting, the gg caliber defense, his 149 wRC+, because of those 20 points.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLES3658 View Post
    Going by fangraphs his WAR has dropped below 3. Of course his WAR is helped by defense and baserunning. But since he became a starter, he produced an above average wRC+ in 8 out of 11 seasons. He is just an all around solid player who grades out positively across the board which leads to a solid WAR.
    Gardner's lifetime wRC+ is 104. Yes, he's technically "above average," but this is only a technicality. A 104 wRC+ is about as close to average as you can get performance wise, and yet, he's always maintained a fairly good WAR. His OPS+ also happens to be 100, which is average.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    Gardner's lifetime wRC+ is 104. Yes, he's technically "above average," but this is only a technicality. A 104 wRC+ is about as close to average as you can get performance wise, and yet, he's always maintained a fairly good WAR. His OPS+ also happens to be 100, which is average.
    Haha so first you say: "As a matter of fact, 3.2 was the lowest his war has ever been, as a full time starter, and that was when his wRC+ was below 90, which is way below average"

    So a 90 wRC+, 10 points below an average 100 wRC+ is "way below average" yet now a 104 wRC+, which is 4 points higher than average is "about as close to average as you can get." Seems biased.

    Gardner has produced a 110 wRC+ or higher in 3 of the last 4 years. Better?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    Gardner's lifetime wRC+ is 104. Yes, he's technically "above average," but this is only a technicality. A 104 wRC+ is about as close to average as you can get performance wise, and yet, he's always maintained a fairly good WAR. His OPS+ also happens to be 100, which is average.
    He plays hard so that is a good thing, I guess.
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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Brett Gardner's deal with the #Yankees is official. It's a a two-year, $5.15 million contract. He will earn $1.85 million in 2021 with a $1 million signing bonus. He has a $2.3 million player option for 2022. If he declines, Yankees have a $7.15M option with a $1.15M buyout.
    SO Garnder gets just under 3 mil this year? And then next year for 2.3 mil?
    I guess I am not sure what you mean by if he declines that second year. What is the 7.15 mil with a 1.15 buy out for?
    If he says no, I would guess they won't owe him anything
    Is the 7.15 mil a quantity they can offer to convince him to stay? If so, why the buy out clause?

    As it stands, that's a significantly better deal than the 4 per.



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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    SO Garnder gets just under 3 mil this year? And then next year for 2.3 mil?
    I guess I am not sure what you mean by if he declines that second year. What is the 7.15 mil with a 1.15 buy out for?
    If he says no, I would guess they won't owe him anything
    Is the 7.15 mil a quantity they can offer to convince him to stay? If so, why the buy out clause?

    As it stands, that's a significantly better deal than the 4 per.
    Yes, It makes it even a more stunningly good deal.

    So, the reason that they say it's a $4 million contract is that it is a $2.85 million contract with a $1.15 million guaranteed buyout for the second year. The $7.15 million is basically the guaranteed $1.15 million buyout plus a $6 million salary in the first year of the new agreement with presumably a much higher luxury tax threshold.

    If Gardner performs poorly, he can opt in and get an extra $1.15 million with our thanks if we cut him or is he hangs on as a role player.

    If Gardner performs well and deserves a much higher contract, he would absolutely opt out, but the extra $6 million protects us from an even bigger payday. For example, Last year Gardner hit 5 HRs in a partial season after hitting over 20 the year before. If, for example, Hicks gets hurt again and Gardy plays a lot in CF again and hits 20 HRs again with a .350 OBP again, he's worth at least $10 million and we keep him for $6 million.

    I believe, MLB allows vesting incentives in contracts based on certain criteria such as games played, but not on specific performance incentives like HRs, though you can get a bonus. This is an interesting way to structure a contract to bypass those rules.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLES3658 View Post
    Haha so first you say: "As a matter of fact, 3.2 was the lowest his war has ever been, as a full time starter, and that was when his wRC+ was below 90, which is way below average"

    So a 90 wRC+, 10 points below an average 100 wRC+ is "way below average" yet now a 104 wRC+, which is 4 points higher than average is "about as close to average as you can get." Seems biased.

    Gardner has produced a 110 wRC+ or higher in 3 of the last 4 years. Better?
    What would you call a wRC+ of 89 but way below average? There's an 11 point difference between that number and 100 and there's only a 4 point difference swinging his wRC above the 100 mark, for his career, which is extremely close to average. How is this incorrect or biased?

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    Yes, It makes it even a more stunningly good deal.

    So, the reason that they say it's a $4 million contract is that it is a $2.85 million contract with a $1.15 million guaranteed buyout for the second year. The $7.15 million is basically the guaranteed $1.15 million buyout plus a $6 million salary in the first year of the new agreement with presumably a much higher luxury tax threshold.

    If Gardner performs poorly, he can opt in and get an extra $1.15 million with our thanks if we cut him or is he hangs on as a role player.

    If Gardner performs well and deserves a much higher contract, he would absolutely opt out, but the extra $6 million protects us from an even bigger payday. For example, Last year Gardner hit 5 HRs in a partial season after hitting over 20 the year before. If, for example, Hicks gets hurt again and Gardy plays a lot in CF again and hits 20 HRs again with a .350 OBP again, he's worth at least $10 million and we keep him for $6 million.

    I believe, MLB allows vesting incentives in contracts based on certain criteria such as games played, but not on specific performance incentives like HRs, though you can get a bonus. This is an interesting way to structure a contract to bypass those rules.
    Thank you!



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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    What would you call a wRC+ of 89 but way below average? There's an 11 point difference between that number and 100 and there's only a 4 point difference swinging his wRC above the 100 mark, for his career, which is extremely close to average. How is this incorrect or biased?
    A 90 wRC+ would be slightly below average. If you want to call it way below average then you have to stay consistent the other way as well and say Gardner's hitting has been way above average 3 of the last 4 years. Since he has had a 110 wRC+ or more in 3 of the last 4 seasons.

  13. #103
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    Justin Wilson gets $5.15M plus incentives on Yankees deal.

    $2,850,000 for 2021

    Player Option 2022 for $2,300,000.

    If Player Option not exercised, Club option 2022 for $7,150,000 or $1,150,000 buyout.

    If Player Option exercised, Club Option 2023 for Minimum + $500,000.

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  14. #104
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    With contract details now known for Wilson, Fangraphs has Yankees' payroll at approx. $206.4M.

    That does not include the NRI players like Jay Bruce, Derek Dietrich, or Jhoulys Chacin.

    Also: The Fangraphs contract numbers are an estimate, and should not be treated as exact.

    Why is this important? If Yankees go into the season with $3.5M of space - the threshold is calculated on a per-day basis. So if the Yankees want to acquire a player at the trade deadline, they could be able to get a guy on July 31 with a $9M salary and still stay under $210M.

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhSoSlick View Post
    With contract details now known for Wilson, Fangraphs has Yankees' payroll at approx. $206.4M.

    That does not include the NRI players like Jay Bruce, Derek Dietrich, or Jhoulys Chacin.

    Also: The Fangraphs contract numbers are an estimate, and should not be treated as exact.

    Why is this important? If Yankees go into the season with $3.5M of space - the threshold is calculated on a per-day basis. So if the Yankees want to acquire a player at the trade deadline, they could be able to get a guy on July 31 with a $9M salary and still stay under $210M.

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    i saw that it was closer to 204m but who knows. A guy making 9m or less for the season doesn't give them a ton of options for upgrades at the deadline. I would think they would like more wiggle room than what they are giving themselves

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