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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Exactly. EMS personnel certainly deserve raises before counter people at McDonald's do.
    In principle they do but not all economic factors are fair. We use the point that a CEO walks away with a golden parachute of 50 million dollars when resigning from a billion dollar company and that's okay. Why is it okay for McDonalds to pay their employees 11 bucks an hour when franchises are multi million dollar operations and the parent company is worth 163 billion dollars? Revenue matters and if we use that theory to justify salaries, McDonalds employees should be making significantly more than they currently are.

  2. #92
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    I am all for people earning as much money as their skills allow the to, but what actual skills to McDonald's counter people have other than basic reading skills? They can read what the machine tells them and make change. Certainly they are worth more than $7.25/hr, but I can't see many places where they are earning less than $10/hr.
    Again, I will ask who has more at risk in this economy -- the business owner or the employee?

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I am all for people earning as much money as their skills allow the to, but what actual skills to McDonald's counter people have other than basic reading skills? They can read what the machine tells them and make change. Certainly they are worth more than $7.25/hr, but I can't see many places where they are earning less than $10/hr.

    Again, I will ask who has more at risk in this economy -- the business owner or the employee?
    Well up to 1.6 million of them are earning $7.25, and many more are earning less than $10.

    What do you think the minimum wage should be?

    Also, I worked at KFC in High School and it definitely involved more than just reading what a machine says and making change. It is a physically demanding job, especially during dinner rush (or during a chicken fried steak promotion next to an old folks home at 10:00 am).

  4. #94
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    I agree it should increase, but how high should be up to the market, as opposed to the government. If a job is worth more than $7.25, it should pay more than that. Some jobs are simply not worth more than $7.25/hr.
    Again, who has more at risk -- the business owner or employee?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I agree it should increase but how high should be up to the market, as opposed to the government. If a job is worth more than $7.25, it should pay more than that. Some jobs are simply not worth more than $7.25/hr.
    Again, who has more at risk -- the business owner or employee?
    What does this mean? Should we increase minimum wage or not?

    As for who has more risk, the business owner or the employee? The business owner has more risk of the business, that's why they make way more. But they each have equal risk to their well being if the business goes bankrupt and they lose their job. And the minimum wage employee has more risk than the employer in terms of the difficulty in providing for himself on his wages.

  6. #96
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    Just over 1% of full-time workers earn minimum wage (1.1% as opposed to 4.3% of part time workers).
    When I retire from nursing, a minimum wage job will be all I will need, as I have a decent pension. I will not ask for more, but if the employer wishes to pay me more, I will take it. I will likely donate most of my earnings to charity, as I will be working just to stay busy.
    Yes, I am fortunate and I agree that others may not be as fortunate. I will likely go to work in public service as an EMT at the casino near my house.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well up to 1.6 million of them are earning $7.25, and many more are earning less than $10.

    What do you think the minimum wage should be?

    Also, I worked at KFC in High School and it definitely involved more than just reading what a machine says and making change. It is a physically demanding job, especially during dinner rush (or during a chicken fried steak promotion next to an old folks home at 10:00 am).
    How far would you say a minimum wage job should take someone?
    Should it be enough for a single person to get by on sharing an apartment with someone? Enough for a married man with 2 kids to be able to save up to buy a house? What should a minimum wage be able to cover?

    That's a base point in looking at this IMO. From a taxpayer standpoint, I'd think a minimum would be enough that a full time employee generally doesn't also need federal assistance as well. But the ideal would also mean that the bulk of people making minimum wage only do so for a short period of time and/or are only doing it part time while working thru school or as a second job. Otherwise, they're working their way up to higher wages, building skills to make higher wages at that or another company.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    How far would you say a minimum wage job should take someone?
    Should it be enough for a single person to get by on sharing an apartment with someone? Enough for a married man with 2 kids to be able to save up to buy a house? What should a minimum wage be able to cover?

    That's a base point in looking at this IMO. From a taxpayer standpoint, I'd think a minimum would be enough that a full time employee generally doesn't also need federal assistance as well. But the ideal would also mean that the bulk of people making minimum wage only do so for a short period of time and/or are only doing it part time while working thru school or as a second job. Otherwise, they're working their way up to higher wages, building skills to make higher wages at that or another company.
    I think minimum wage should be enough that you can provide basic housing, food, and transportation for yourself without relying on government assistance.

    I don't think minimum wage should be for you taking care of yourself and others, but at the very least a minimum wage should allow you to take care of yourself.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I am all for people earning as much money as their skills allow the to, but what actual skills to McDonald's counter people have other than basic reading skills? They can read what the machine tells them and make change. Certainly they are worth more than $7.25/hr, but I can't see many places where they are earning less than $10/hr.
    Again, I will ask who has more at risk in this economy -- the business owner or the employee?
    Who has more at risk? I donít get it. Probably the individual with nothing to fall back on and no support network. Who do you think that is?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I think minimum wage should be enough that you can provide basic housing, food, and transportation for yourself without relying on government assistance.

    I don't think minimum wage should be for you taking care of yourself and others, but at the very least a minimum wage should allow you to take care of yourself.
    And to make that a reality, we cant have 42% of people working for less than $15 an hour.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    it's a foregone conclusion that some especially mega-corporations have regularly combined with Congress to work things into the system, whether that's the tax laws or defense contracts, to greatly benefit themselves....some BECAME mega-corporations because of these things........and the reason people aren't prosecuted is because the people that actually know and/or the people who actually could...are themselves complicit..............and on and on it goes
    But are the people currently running big businesses responsible for taking advantage of a system they had nothing to do with creating?

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Yes, bribery is a crime. I meant lobby and donate to campaigns, etc. Essentially, all the legal forms of bribery.

    And yes, most of the big companies have a hand in writing the tax laws (and all other manner of laws). In fact, most laws aren't even written by politicians, they are themselves written by lobbyists for... the big corporations:

    https://www.usatoday.com/pages/inter...ce-state-laws/


    So no, these are not passive corporations that are simply benefitting from previously written laws. These are corporations taking an active approach to re-writing our tax laws (and all other laws) to benefit themselves.

    Is it really so hard to believe? You yourself often complain about how Obamacare got neutered by the insurance industry and that's why it's so ineffective. Well imagine that same thing but for tax laws.
    The problem I have with it is that it's an absolute certainty that not every business using any one loophole are the ones who paid for it to exist. The people who are supposed to set the rules are the ones responsible for the rules. Fix the rules and punish people who break them. Until we get gate keepers who are actually doing their job the rest of it doesn't really matter globally.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Who has more at risk? I donít get it. Probably the individual with nothing to fall back on and no support network. Who do you think that is?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The employee only has his/her job to be concerned about, and they should be able to find another one very soon. The owner has millions of dollars at stake. If the business fails, all of the employees are out of a job and they are still responsible for their loans and other bills.
    The owner has far more at stake. They are the ones with the capital at stake.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well up to 1.6 million of them are earning $7.25, and many more are earning less than $10.

    What do you think the minimum wage should be?

    Also, I worked at KFC in High School and it definitely involved more than just reading what a machine says and making change. It is a physically demanding job, especially during dinner rush (or during a chicken fried steak promotion next to an old folks home at 10:00 am).
    I understand, having managed a restaurant in the past. It is a demanding job, physically, but not terribly demanding mentally. Yes you have to be able to think on your feet and adjust to situations. The skill level required to run a cash register and take orders at a fast-food restaurant is not terribly high. This is one reason many places have gone to automated order-taking.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny01 View Post
    And to make that a reality, we cant have 42% of people working for less than $15 an hour.
    but there has to be some sort of marker, and $15/hr is an arbitrary number
    7.25 for 40 hours a week puts someone about at the current poverty line...the federal minimum should be based on the lower cost of living areas and states and cities make their decisions from that base point

    For what it's worth (different times, just sayin') the largest increase since the 50s was 25% in 1974 when it went from $1.60 to $2.00. 15% in 1974, 12% or less since. 25% would be barely over $9 and is not enough, so even something like $11/hr would be the 2nd largest change since a federal minimum was established (went from 40 to 75 cents in 1950, 87%)
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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