D. Rose Ver 2.0

[rpgmaster86]

Payton was really bad for RJ last year. And we just seemed to ignore that, and re-signed him anyway.

Regardless of Rivers' contract, there was no room for him in the rotation. We have so many mouths to feed, and it was inevitable that the younger players would be pushed aside, as we're seeing with Knox and Frank.

We're really lucky that IQ popped right away, otherwise the only young guys with legit rotation minutes would be RJ and Mitch.

Facts! Payton is a decent backup point guard but we lack shooting and his inability to be aggressive when it comes to shooting hurts us offensively. Teams just play zone and leave him to shoot.
Truth is, gun to our heads to save our lives, all of us on this forum would rather D-rose shoot a mid-range or 3 over Elf.

[D-Leethal]

Facts! Payton is a decent backup point guard but we lack shooting and his inability to be aggressive when it comes to shooting hurts us offensively. Teams just play zone and leave him to shoot.
Truth is, gun to our heads to save our lives, all of us on this forum would rather D-rose shoot a mid-range or 3 over Elf.

To be fair it seems like Payton was our last resort this offseason.

[smood999]

Payton was really bad for RJ last year. And we just seemed to ignore that, and re-signed him anyway.

Regardless of Rivers' contract, there was no room for him in the rotation. We have so many mouths to feed, and it was inevitable that the younger players would be pushed aside, as we're seeing with Knox and Frank.

We're really lucky that IQ popped right away, otherwise the only young guys with legit rotation minutes would be RJ and Mitch.

Agreed with your point about Payton. It was the last thing I wanted to see, but I understood that they weren’t going to hand the keys to Frank or DSJ.

Regarding Rivers’ place in the rotation, I don’t think they were prioritizing Knox, Frank or DSJ. They took the training wheels off (rightfully so) and it was up to them if they wanted a spot in the rotation. These players aren’t that good, so I’m looking exactly at them (Frank and Knox) and asking why they haven’t been better.

Most of us said going in that this would be about RJ, Mitch and our draft picks, so not sure how it’s being used against them now. I wouldn’t have been shocked at Frank and Knox having to take a backseat regardless of coach or front office. NBA players only get so many chances before the team stops babying them. Teams don’t invest their time unless the player shows that they are worth investing in. Neither player has done that.

[KnicksFan4Years]

Rose only makes sense as a replacement for Payton. Rose is an upgrade over Payton.

There has to be another deal in the works or they are preparing to be able to swing another deal if something opens up.

Knicks have a number of expiring contracts and a little cap space that gives us flexibility to pull trigger on variety of trades.

[Bubba313]

Agreed with your point about Payton. It was the last thing I wanted to see, but I understood that they weren’t going to hand the keys to Frank or DSJ.

Regarding Rivers’ place in the rotation, I don’t think they were prioritizing Knox, Frank or DSJ. They took the training wheels off (rightfully so) and it was up to them if they wanted a spot in the rotation. These players aren’t that good, so I’m looking exactly at them (Frank and Knox) and asking why they haven’t been better.

Most of us said going in that this would be about RJ, Mitch and our draft picks, so not sure how it’s being used against them now. I wouldn’t have been shocked at Frank and Knox having to take a backseat regardless of coach or front office. NBA players only get so many chances before the team stops babying them. Teams don’t invest their time unless the player shows that they are worth investing in. Neither player has done that.

I wasn't against them bringing in a PG, I was specifically against bringing back Payton. If they weren't going to address the PG situation in the draft (which they should have), then they needed to bring in someone who would work well with RJ, Randle/Obi, and Mitch, i.e., someone who could space the floor.

As for Rivers, I think Frank is better. It's as simple as that. But I also think Knox has some untapped upside, and he should be prioritized over both of them. But Thibs will give Rivers the longest of leashes while Frank never got one (with Thibs), and Knox has apparently already been pulled back.

[rpgmaster86]

To be fair it seems like Payton was our last resort this offseason.

I mean I hear what you're saying but what about russ? We could've pushed harder for him. But it is what it is. I'm not blaming Elf. He is who he is. But this is the most important position and he doesn't cut it.

[KnicksorBust]

Agree. He’s still willing to play Payton big minutes at IQs expense, what’s going to happen now with his boy D Rose here. Last 3 games IQ played well below 20 minutes. There’s zero reason that should be happening at all

I wasn't against them bringing in a PG, I was specifically against bringing back Payton. If they weren't going to address the PG situation in the draft (which they should have), then they needed to bring in someone who would work well with RJ, Randle/Obi, and Mitch, i.e., someone who could space the floor.

As for Rivers, I think Frank is better. It's as simple as that. But I also think Knox has some untapped upside, and he should be prioritized over both of them. But Thibs will give Rivers the longest of leashes while Frank never got one (with Thibs), and Knox has apparently already been pulled back.

Spot on.

If Quickley had Payton's minutes and Frank had Austin River's minutes, I think we would be better.

[still a fan]

Actually it's time Frank gets traded, if he's not going to play it's time. Really don't want to read so many posts about an end of the bench player that takes a month to heal from tiny injuries.

Look at his face he don't want to be in NY, so it's time to cut the umbilical cord and part ways. He was given more than ample time and minutes to prove himself and failed.

I'm not getting the blame the coach's things, there have been a slew of them for our longest tenured player, all have concluded the same thing, it's just not in his DNA to be aggressive, once in 10 games don't make you aggressive.

And the biggest confusion is if you go back and read posts and threads where did you have the Knicks this season? Did you have them in 8th spot just out of 6th spot? We are not supposed be at this level, and fans still get upset?

Here's a brief reminder I believe we had 4 wins at this time last year and there was less complaining.

So from everyone's predictions the posters right here saying we stink the roster is horrible, etc etc etc, Thibs must be doing something right.

I for one had no idea we would be this damn competitive and even last game we were in it to almost the final buzzer.

don't know about anyone else but i'm so happy game after game after game blowouts no longer exist.

Thank you Thibs.................I don't agree with every move he makes, but damn you can say that about every single coach.

He is here to win, can't blame him.

How many coach's are you guys saying great job we got a lottery pick? Yep, none.

[still a fan]

Marc Berman
@NYPost_Berman
·
27m
Column: Derrick Rose trade will only be successful if he meshes well with Randle and Barrett - no sure thing #Knicks #NBA #Pistons




Marc Berman
@NYPost_Berman
·
57m
Derrick Rose will take Dennis Smith Jr.'s number 4 as 25 is taken by Reggie Bullock. Smith Jr. switched to 4 this season - his North Carolina State #.

[Knick Danger]

Actually it's time Frank gets traded, if he's not going to play it's time. Really don't want to read so many posts about an end of the bench player that takes a month to heal from tiny injuries.

Look at his face he don't want to be in NY, so it's time to cut the umbilical cord and part ways. He was given more than ample time and minutes to prove himself and failed.

I'm not getting the blame the coach's things, there have been a slew of them for our longest tenured player, all have concluded the same thing, it's just not in his DNA to be aggressive, once in 10 games don't make you aggressive.

And the biggest confusion is if you go back and read posts and threads where did you have the Knicks this season? Did you have them in 8th spot just out of 6th spot? We are not supposed be at this level, and fans still get upset?

Here's a brief reminder I believe we had 4 wins at this time last year and there was less complaining.

So from everyone's predictions the posters right here saying we stink the roster is horrible, etc etc etc, Thibs must be doing something right.

I for one had no idea we would be this damn competitive and even last game we were in it to almost the final buzzer.

don't know about anyone else but i'm so happy game after game after game blowouts no longer exist.

Thank you Thibs.................I don't agree with every move he makes, but damn you can say that about every single coach.

He is here to win, can't blame him.

How many coach's are you guys saying great job we got a lottery pick? Yep, none.

From a little different angle agree with all this. Basically if Thibs wants Rose then all right.

Even though I feel Frank has been short changed by fans and media since the get go -- probably because he was a "Phil Pick" for "the Triangle' (although it turned to love for the banished KP, who knows of these things?) -- and that he has shown flashes of his value sporadically and at the FIBA World Cup -- fact is he hasn't been able to stay on the court. And much as if Thibs wants Rose, if Thibs doesn't want Frank then so be it. I'll miss all the Frank threads but it's time to move on.

Thibs has brought mostly the best of what we envisioned. Teams are playing hard and especially love the defense. Some players are being maximized, while some are being set aside (doghouse if you will). We are in the hunt, in play, have an encouraging story line, and if I want Frank but don't want Rose then I will get over it. This is so much better than in a very long time.

[KnicksFan4Years]

Marc Berman
@NYPost_Berman
·
27m
Column: Derrick Rose trade will only be successful if he meshes well with Randle and Barrett - no sure thing #Knicks #NBA #Pistons




Marc Berman
@NYPost_Berman
·
57m
Derrick Rose will take Dennis Smith Jr.'s number 4 as 25 is taken by Reggie Bullock. Smith Jr. switched to 4 this season - his North Carolina State #.

I am getting a tear drop tattoo in honor of DSJr departure.

[still a fan]

I am getting a tear drop tattoo in honor of DSJr departure.

lol, now watch he actually starts to play well.

[still a fan]

•The Knicks may be most effective using Rose as a shooting guard, rather than breaking up their point guard combination of Elfrid Payton and Immanuel Quickley, suggests John Hollinger of The Athletic. He notes that Detroit frequently played Rose at the two-guard spot, where he would be taking minutes away from Rivers and Reggie Bullock.

[rpgmaster86]

•The Knicks may be most effective using Rose as a shooting guard, rather than breaking up their point guard combination of Elfrid Payton and Immanuel Quickley, suggests John Hollinger of The Athletic. He notes that Detroit frequently played Rose at the two-guard spot, where he would be taking minutes away from Rivers and Reggie Bullock.

I'd rather keep bullock in the starting line up for now till we can upgrade...Burks can kick rocks.

[Rocco Hardball]

I have a different take on this, and I actually read every single post on this thread first.

As we all know, this entire organization has been in shambles since the day Ewing was traded for parts that for some reason, we extended. Sans the one Melo year where we won 50+ games, and the brief "Linsanity" moment, we have literally been the laughingstock of the association.

FINALLY in the last year, the Knicks purged the entire organization and got an actual plan.

1. Bring in serious FO help to build this thing from the ground up. Leon Rose, WWW, and suddenly you have some street cred. Not much mind you but a slight blip on the screen.

2. Hire a big time coach. Thibs is well respected as a coach, but more importantly as an x's and O's type leader. There is actually a game plan in place each night.

3. Have a defensive scheme that actually prevents opponents from scoring at will each game. Remember all the times players like Kobe/MJ/Melo/etc would come into the Garden and drop 50+ points? Thibs will instantly put an end to that.

4. Create a culture- This to me was most important. There is finally accountability for what happens on the court, in the locker room, and in front of the media. Thibs is in charge and he has the respect of this squad.

5. Winning basketball. Winning is part of culture, modern day NBA stars do not want to be part of a re-build, they want to be the last piece to the puzzle or the icing on the cake. If the Knicks win more games this year and get the 4/5/6 seed they suddenly become an attractive landing spot for the leagues elite. Playing veterans and getting the most out of them is what Thibs does. ESPN had us winning 22 games this year. Vegas was even less if I remember right. Here we sit 1/3 of the way into the season and we already have 11 victories.

DRose is going to help this team win games. I am so sick of fans wanting this team to lose so that our draft position is somewhat better. That is how we stay in the same cycle we have been stuck in for 2 decades. When it comes to Quickley and Obi, No one wants to see them on the court more than I do, but sometimes I think we forget they are rookies. Personally I see them being more effective in that second unit with Rose on the court. No reason Quick and Rose cant play together. They both bring such a different game to the table. Toppin could be the recipient of so many sick passes with these two terrifying defenses. Quickley is already drawing a double team, that simply cant happen if Rose is on the court with him.

Lastly, I am so glad the system put in place kept us from falling into the RUSS/Harden/Paul trade trap. Those types of players are attached to salaries we simply do not need to take on. Also, our young players don't need to get caught standing around watching the James Harden show every night.

We are young, we have a ton of first round draft picks, and finally an actual plan. Rose will help accelerate that plan even further. Great move, great trade.