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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    I can't put it all on the OL and running game, Darnold hasn't been good.

    I would make that trade, to me Baker has proven himself better than Darnold so far.
    As we've seen Baker progress as a QB.
    Can't say the same for Sam at the moment.
    Fari point.
    My thought is that Sam is still really young. That doesn't mean he will be good but for the comparison of those two, I would consider those two years difference.
    But Sam's TD- Int, is flat out awful



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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Fari point.
    My thought is that Sam is still really young. That doesn't mean he will be good but for the comparison of those two, I would consider those two years difference.
    But Sam's TD- Int, is flat out awful
    That's the one thing that gets me with Sam.
    He's young.
    Young enough that he can still turn it around and be a great QB.

    But he's close to a big money deal, and we're still talking potential over production.

    If another team is offering a 1st for him, you have to make it happen.
    Not just for the Jets but for Sam, and a new opportunity for him.

  3. #33
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    Not so Fast

    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    That's the one thing that gets me with Sam.
    He's young.
    Young enough that he can still turn it around and be a great QB.

    But he's close to a big money deal, and we're still talking potential over production.

    If another team is offering a 1st for him, you have to make it happen.
    Not just for the Jets but for Sam, and a new opportunity for him.
    If Gase were still coach, then I would be first in line to want to get Darnold out of Dodge.

    But he has a fresh start right here in New York.
    Saleh and LaFleur, from what they are saying, both feel that Darnold is a perfect fit for their system. They could be gaslighting to up his value or we could take them at their word.
    With competent coaches who are very supportive of him here in New York, why is it best for him to go elsewhere?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    If Gase were still coach, then I would be first in line to want to get Darnold out of Dodge.

    But he has a fresh start right here in New York.
    Saleh and LaFleur, from what they are saying, both feel that Darnold is a perfect fit for their system. They could be gaslighting to up his value or we could take them at their word.
    With competent coaches who are very supportive of him here in New York, why is it best for him to go elsewhere?
    I think the ruthless media and fans are the issue. Once Darnold has a bad game, the pitch forks will come out and ďsame old JetsĒ. Thatís why a new team might be better, theyíll allow him to grow and have a bad game

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    That's the one thing that gets me with Sam.
    He's young.
    Young enough that he can still turn it around and be a great QB.

    But he's close to a big money deal, and we're still talking potential over production.

    If another team is offering a 1st for him, you have to make it happen.
    Not just for the Jets but for Sam, and a new opportunity for him.
    For a first rounder, it would be very, very tough to say no. For a second or third? Not so much.

    Ortforshort made a great point regarding Sam having a new coaching staff being the fresh start he may need.
    LarryM made a great point talking about the media and fans not allowing for that.

    But yeah, he's going to be 24 in the summer. He's still, really young and I think in the right system with the right coaches and talent, he could be a top 15 even top 10 QB. It happened to Tannehill. He went from the bottom to a top 10 qb.



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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    For a first rounder, it would be very, very tough to say no. For a second or third? Not so much.

    Ortforshort made a great point regarding Sam having a new coaching staff being the fresh start he may need.
    LarryM made a great point talking about the media and fans not allowing for that.

    But yeah, he's going to be 24 in the summer. He's still, really young and I think in the right system with the right coaches and talent, he could be a top 15 even top 10 QB. It happened to Tannehill. He went from the bottom to a top 10 qb.
    I do think Sam can be successful here, I just think itíll be more challenging than say SF or NO

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    I do think Sam can be successful here, I just think itíll be more challenging than say SF or NO
    Or Indianapolis

    Watching this
    Wentz stuff unfold and seeing how insane the Eagles are in their asking price, I could see the Colts effectively flipping them the bird and calling Joe to offer a first.



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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    For a first rounder, it would be very, very tough to say no. For a second or third? Not so much.

    Ortforshort made a great point regarding Sam having a new coaching staff being the fresh start he may need.
    LarryM made a great point talking about the media and fans not allowing for that.

    But yeah, he's going to be 24 in the summer. He's still, really young and I think in the right system with the right coaches and talent, he could be a top 15 even top 10 QB. It happened to Tannehill. He went from the bottom to a top 10 qb.
    For a 2nd rounder, I'd have no problem trading him too.

    Just because we have a new HC, doesn't mean we have new media and fans.
    There's no fresh start there.
    Sam would have to be flawless in order to receive any leeway in performance.

    Nothing we've seen so far has shown me that's on the immediate horizon.

    I want Sam to succeed, which is why I think he has to be moved elsewhere.
    And right now is the most valuable he'll be trade-wise.
    Last edited by MrX27; 02-11-2021 at 03:19 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    If Gase were still coach, then I would be first in line to want to get Darnold out of Dodge.

    But he has a fresh start right here in New York.
    Saleh and LaFleur, from what they are saying, both feel that Darnold is a perfect fit for their system. They could be gaslighting to up his value or we could take them at their word.
    With competent coaches who are very supportive of him here in New York, why is it best for him to go elsewhere?
    Watson is perfect for their system, so is Fields, so is Jimmy G and so on...

    If the system is perfect for Sam and you want to do right by him, send him to San Fran for a 2nd and 5th.
    All is well.

    Why is it best for him to go elsewhere?
    Answer: because there are better QBs available (Watson, Fields, maybe Lance and Wilson- and the last 3 would be on new rookie deals).
    Last edited by MrX27; 02-11-2021 at 03:23 PM.

  10. #40
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    I can see both sides of the argument here: On one hand, if Darnold does come back the first bad game he has, the boo birds are going to be out in full force.

    With that said, I am also curious to see what Darnold does with a competent head coach/OC. He sure didn't have it with Todd Bowles/Jeremy Bates and he sure didn't have anything close with Gase and Loggains.
    Eichel Tower

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccugrad1 View Post
    I can see both sides of the argument here: On one hand, if Darnold does come back the first bad game he has, the boo birds are going to be out in full force.

    With that said, I am also curious to see what Darnold does with a competent head coach/OC. He sure didn't have it with Todd Bowles/Jeremy Bates and he sure didn't have anything close with Gase and Loggains.
    Todd Bowles was a competent HC.
    No one was groaning when he achieved with Fitzpatrick, so complaining now is only done by those boo birds.

    And it can't be denied that if Sam is not dealt this offseason, he loses trade value
    And unless you hope the Jets end up with the.#1 pick next year, in a weak QB class, then you have to make your move for a QB this offseason.

    New regime, new HC, new offense, new QB.

    Otherwise, Douglas has hitched his boat to Darnold.
    Would you?

  12. #42
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    We are setting ourselves up for a lose lose if we keep Darnold. Letís say he has a decent season, then what? We pay him? We establish he is the guy going forward? What if then he pulls a Goff or Jimmy G?

    The worst thing in the nfl is have a solid QB winning games he should and losing tough games to go 8-8 or barely get a wild card. Iím sorry, I would rather go for a HR in the draft. Solid is okay when he is under a draft salary situation but we need more if we are going to pay him. If we get a late first or early 2nd I say do it and move on.

    I keep hearing guys like Mcshay and Mel say itís a lateral move to draft a Zach Wilson or Field or Lance... why arenít they talking about the money too?

    I think if youíre a good QB, you will show it regardless of who your coach is. For every Ryan Tannehill out there I can name 5 guys that just ball out regardless of the coach. Darnold makes it look hard, guys who are good make it look easy.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmagic387 View Post
    We are setting ourselves up for a lose lose if we keep Darnold. Letís say he has a decent season, then what? We pay him? We establish he is the guy going forward? What if then he pulls a Goff or Jimmy G?

    The worst thing in the nfl is have a solid QB winning games he should and losing tough games to go 8-8 or barely get a wild card. Iím sorry, I would rather go for a HR in the draft. Solid is okay when he is under a draft salary situation but we need more if we are going to pay him. If we get a late first or early 2nd I say do it and move on.

    I keep hearing guys like Mcshay and Mel say itís a lateral move to draft a Zach Wilson or Field or Lance... why arenít they talking about the money too?

    I think if youíre a good QB, you will show it regardless of who your coach is. For every Ryan Tannehill out there I can name 5 guys that just ball out regardless of the coach. Darnold makes it look hard, guys who are good make it look easy.
    Itís weak analysis to consider Fields or Wilson a lateral move. It might be at that one position but it is not from a roster construction and asset management perspective. Replacing Sam with Fields or Wilson saves them about 20mil in the next two years and gives them at least one more draft pick.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiley6 View Post
    Itís weak analysis to consider Fields or Wilson a lateral move. It might be at that one position but it is not from a roster construction and asset management perspective. Replacing Sam with Fields or Wilson saves them about 20mil in the next two years and gives them at least one more draft pick.
    Absolutely. Sam has established himself as a loser if you ask me. Say what you want, he has regressed and I no longer see a guy who everyone thought would be a slam dunk franchise QB. He doesnít have special arm talent, he isnít special in terms of athleticism, he isnít accurate and he isnít a good decision maker. If some team wants to give us a pick for him so be it, we need a new direction.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmagic387 View Post
    Absolutely. Sam has established himself as a loser if you ask me. Say what you want, he has regressed and I no longer see a guy who everyone thought would be a slam dunk franchise QB. He doesnít have special arm talent, he isnít special in terms of athleticism, he isnít accurate and he isnít a good decision maker. If some team wants to give us a pick for him so be it, we need a new direction.
    TMML because it's so blunt and so accurate. That's been my problem with him from the start and why I never had the hype for him. There is nothing about him that stands out as, wow. Baker is a great leader and an accurate thrower. Allen is a great athlete with a ridiculous arm.

    Sam is solid at everything except decision. He has a good arm. He's a good athlete

    He absolutely regressed. When I started that thread about this being his last chance, I was adamant that if he reversed it should be. I am doing a half of a flip flop. (You can't get more of a flip flop than a half of one)
    By that I mean, I do think Sam is good at many things and that his decision making can be taught and corrected. If the Jets believe the new style of offense they will run, along with the new coaches can do that with pizazz and they think that option is better, because the talent difference between Sam and the QBs they could draft is negligible, I would be fine with it.

    I will also be fine with moving on from him.

    I won't judge Sam on his rookie year. But as far as him being a loser? A "genius" Head Coach with a record of 32-48, is the real loser and the primary culprit with him and his lack of development.

    You guys know, the coach responsible for Peyton Manning's success? And uh, who were the other successful guys the genius developed? Tannehill? Oh, no.

    As I said, this off season is especially fun for so many reasons. A legit HC. A GM who just had a very good draft in his first attempt. A boatload of money. Young players who seem to have good skills and the attitude, to be a foundation.



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