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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Yeah in this case hes probably Top 3. Not sure Id take any other QB other than Mahomes over him tbh.
    That is my feeling. My 3 would be Mahomes, Watson, then ... toss up between Murray, Allen, Love



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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    I guess what Mahomes looked like in the Super Bowl and Josh Allen in the AFC title game must mean that they both suck because no matter how bad your offensive line, a QB should still play like a stud. And they looked like crap even tho' they had good coaches and excellent skill players around them, go figure.
    Darnold has never had to run 497 yds just to avoid defenses.

    I'm not putting that loss one Mahomes, especially when he's making absolutely ridiculous throws and still on target with his passes.
    2 TDs passes hit the receivers in the facemask.

    KC receivers did Mahomes no favors with their untimely drops all game long.

  3. #18
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    Here we go again

    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    Darnold has never had to run 497 yds just to avoid defenses.

    I'm not putting that loss one Mahomes, especially when he's making absolutely ridiculous throws and still on target with his passes.
    2 TDs passes hit the receivers in the facemask.

    KC receivers did Mahomes no favors with their untimely drops all game long.
    If we take him at his word, it looks like Saleh understands what Darnold has been up against the last three years.

    You are correct that Darnold has never had the opportunity to prove he can be a franchise QB because he's never had a decent team or coach surrounding him, as Mahomes and Allen have always had their entire careers.

    Therefore going with Darnold is a gamble, but no more so than wasting the second overall pick on another talented QB who hasn't proven a thing.

    Now that we've seen that Mahomes and Allen are human when facing what Darnold did (altho' they had much better skill players and coaches), it substantiates Saleh's going with Darnold moving forward much more.

    I'll take two first rounders and two second rounders over the slight chance that Wilson is better than Darnold. The other potential first round QBs (other than Lawrence) are a cut below Wilson at this point, so it's Wilson vs. Darnold plus two first rounders and two second rounders.

    Saleh would need to re-think things if Jacksonville goes Fields rather than Lawrence, but that seems unlikely.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    If we take him at his word, it looks like Saleh understands what Darnold has been up against the last three years.

    You are correct that Darnold has never had the opportunity to prove he can be a franchise QB because he's never had a decent team or coach surrounding him, as Mahomes and Allen have always had their entire careers.

    Therefore going with Darnold is a gamble, but no more so than wasting the second overall pick on another talented QB who hasn't proven a thing.

    Now that we've seen that Mahomes and Allen are human when facing what Darnold did (altho' they had much better skill players and coaches), it substantiates Saleh's going with Darnold moving forward much more.

    I'll take two first rounders and two second rounders over the slight chance that Wilson is better than Darnold. The other potential first round QBs (other than Lawrence) are a cut below Wilson at this point, so it's Wilson vs. Darnold plus two first rounders and two second rounders.

    Saleh would need to re-think things if Jacksonville goes Fields rather than Lawrence, but that seems unlikely.
    The bolded is exactly my feeling. If they think Fields, Wilson, are significant upgrades, do it. If not? I would go with Sam. (Unless they make a trade for Watson of course).

    The only sticking point in that is, cost. As has been mentioned, how do you then deal with Sam's contract? They could franchise him a couple times if needed but that's certainly not ideal.



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  5. #20
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    Gray Areas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    The bolded is exactly my feeling. If they think Fields, Wilson, are significant upgrades, do it. If not? I would go with Sam. (Unless they make a trade for Watson of course).

    The only sticking point in that is, cost. As has been mentioned, how do you then deal with Sam's contract? They could franchise him a couple times if needed but that's certainly not ideal.
    You're rolling the dice either way.

    I think I would also go the franchise route. That way, if Sam doesn't end up being franchise-worthy you're not stuck long term. Altho' if he does end up franchise-worthy, it's going to cost you more.

    Also, I forgot to mention above that, at this point, it sounds like there are teams out there willing to spend a first rounder on Sam depending on how the coaching carousel goes. That makes it a bit closer.

    Wilson + a first rounder + cheap for four years vs. Darnold + 2 first rounders + 2 second rounder

    I would call Sam's lackluster three years under horrific circumstances vs. Wilson's never having played in the pros a wash at this point. I also would not assume that any of the guys coming out this year, including Lawrence, is a lock to perform anywhere near as well as what Burrow and Herbert did last year. They were true unicorns.

    Also, guys like Murray, Jackson and Allen are different species. They are primarily great runners who aren't great passers. Murray is too small and will only be good as long as he's healthy and retains his quickness. Allen's a great power runner who don't throw so accurate. And Jackson is a great runner and mediocre, at best, passer. These guys are the next RG III, Michael Vick, Cam Newton generation. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Those three were all really good until all the hits for being running QBs caught up to them. It's hard to consider them franchise QB's because they ain't gonna be around that long, at least as effective QBs.

    Anyway, I think the league has gotten really spoiled with the success of all these guys plus Watson and Mahomes, who are both young. They assume that this years crop will generate a couple more in that group, but that's an invalid assumption. if they get on bad teams, they're going to struggle. Even if they get on good teams, they're more likely to end up like Tua than like Herbert in their first years.

    Even Lawrence, he was annointed when he was in high school and everybody has just carried forward with that. He looked pretty human against Alabama when he had to hurry things up. He's not going to be able to sit back in his rocking chair at Jacksonville. Maybe he'll be another Burrow or Herbert. Maybe not.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    You're rolling the dice either way.

    I think I would also go the franchise route. That way, if Sam doesn't end up being franchise-worthy you're not stuck long term. Altho' if he does end up franchise-worthy, it's going to cost you more.

    Also, I forgot to mention above that, at this point, it sounds like there are teams out there willing to spend a first rounder on Sam depending on how the coaching carousel goes. That makes it a bit closer.

    Wilson + a first rounder + cheap for four years vs. Darnold + 2 first rounders + 2 second rounder

    I would call Sam's lackluster three years under horrific circumstances vs. Wilson's never having played in the pros a wash at this point. I also would not assume that any of the guys coming out this year, including Lawrence, is a lock to perform anywhere near as well as what Burrow and Herbert did last year. They were true unicorns.

    Also, guys like Murray, Jackson and Allen are different species. They are primarily great runners who aren't great passers. Murray is too small and will only be good as long as he's healthy and retains his quickness. Allen's a great power runner who don't throw so accurate. And Jackson is a great runner and mediocre, at best, passer. These guys are the next RG III, Michael Vick, Cam Newton generation. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Those three were all really good until all the hits for being running QBs caught up to them. It's hard to consider them franchise QB's because they ain't gonna be around that long, at least as effective QBs.

    Anyway, I think the league has gotten really spoiled with the success of all these guys plus Watson and Mahomes, who are both young. They assume that this years crop will generate a couple more in that group, but that's an invalid assumption. if they get on bad teams, they're going to struggle. Even if they get on good teams, they're more likely to end up like Tua than like Herbert in their first years.

    Even Lawrence, he was annointed when he was in high school and everybody has just carried forward with that. He looked pretty human against Alabama when he had to hurry things up. He's not going to be able to sit back in his rocking chair at Jacksonville. Maybe he'll be another Burrow or Herbert. Maybe not.
    What happens to Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville is going to have nothing to do with him, but what the front office brings in around him to help him be successful. Unless the Jaguars make significant upgrades elsewhere all over both sides of the football, you could see a situation like Watson has in Houston-- Very good numbers, but a team that is still pathetic because there is nothing else around him.
    Eichel Tower

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccugrad1 View Post
    What happens to Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville is going to have nothing to do with him, but what the front office brings in around him to help him be successful. Unless the Jaguars make significant upgrades elsewhere all over both sides of the football, you could see a situation like Watson has in Houston-- Very good numbers, but a team that is still pathetic because there is nothing else around him.
    I don't think TL is as good as Watson. So on a bad team, I think his numbers are middle of the road. I don't think he ends up with the same lever as Watson if the Jags are as big a fools as the Texans. I think he goes more the way of Sam. I think he becomes a question mark and the talk of "bust", starts.

    For TL's sake, I hope he gets off to a good start. His window is going to be small before the fans and media crush him.



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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    If we take him at his word, it looks like Saleh understands what Darnold has been up against the last three years.

    You are correct that Darnold has never had the opportunity to prove he can be a franchise QB because he's never had a decent team or coach surrounding him, as Mahomes and Allen have always had their entire careers.

    Therefore going with Darnold is a gamble, but no more so than wasting the second overall pick on another talented QB who hasn't proven a thing.

    Now that we've seen that Mahomes and Allen are human when facing what Darnold did (altho' they had much better skill players and coaches), it substantiates Saleh's going with Darnold moving forward much more.

    I'll take two first rounders and two second rounders over the slight chance that Wilson is better than Darnold. The other potential first round QBs (other than Lawrence) are a cut below Wilson at this point, so it's Wilson vs. Darnold plus two first rounders and two second rounders.

    Saleh would need to re-think things if Jacksonville goes Fields rather than Lawrence, but that seems unlikely.
    I didn't say Darnold has never had the opportunity to prove he can be a FQB.
    But the Jets didn't provide him with more quality playmakers, plus Enunwa got severely injured.

    I disagree tuat keeping Darnold is the same as drafting a rookie QB with the #2 pick.
    The Jets had to trade up and give additional draft compensation to acquire Darnold, THAT made him a bigger gamble.

    Darnold has never had to face what Mahomes faced in the SB.
    Stop it.

    Fields is better than Wilson, Wilson may be better than Darnold.

    If the Jets don't trade for Watson, then they find themselves looking at the Trubisky vs Watson draft all over again, except this time insert Wilson for Trubisky and Fields for Watson.

    Trubisky was overhyped but mechanically sound, just like Wilson.
    Watson had a couple bad outings his last year but accurate and a producer, just like Fields.

    If 2 1sts and 2 2nds brings in Watson, then so be it (you make that happen all day).
    After that, Fields is the best of the non-Lawrence rookies, with Lance and Wilson next up.

  9. #24
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    If Darnold was in this draft class where would you rank him?

    I'd have:
    Lawrence
    Fields
    Darnold would fit here with Wilson and Lance. (I want to rank Lance higher but haven't seen enough of him).

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    If Darnold was in this draft class where would you rank him?

    I'd have:
    Lawrence
    Fields
    Darnold would fit here with Wilson and Lance. (I want to rank Lance higher but haven't seen enough of him).
    I would put him right around the same. 1rst is TL and after that it's 2A, 2B,2C, 2D.
    I wouldn't have much separating Fields, Darnold and Lance. If I were drafting, I would want Fields, Lance, Darnold. The same way my list was Baker, Allen, Sam.
    (I think Wilson is the Rosen of this draft. Just a gut feeling).

    That's part of the reason I prefer to stick with Sam. In my head I think of Baker as fields and I would rather keep sam than have baker. I know they are different but I don't think it's enough of an upgrade to make a move.



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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I would put him right around the same. 1rst is TL and after that it's 2A, 2B,2C, 2D.
    I wouldn't have much separating Fields, Darnold and Lance. If I were drafting, I would want Fields, Lance, Darnold. The same way my list was Baker, Allen, Sam.
    (I think Wilson is the Rosen of this draft. Just a gut feeling).

    That's part of the reason I prefer to stick with Sam. In my head I think of Baker as fields and I would rather keep sam than have baker. I know they are different but I don't think it's enough of an upgrade to make a move.
    You wouldn't trade Sam for Baker straight up, if you could?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I would put him right around the same. 1rst is TL and after that it's 2A, 2B,2C, 2D.
    I wouldn't have much separating Fields, Darnold and Lance. If I were drafting, I would want Fields, Lance, Darnold. The same way my list was Baker, Allen, Sam.
    (I think Wilson is the Rosen of this draft. Just a gut feeling).

    That's part of the reason I prefer to stick with Sam. In my head I think of Baker as fields and I would rather keep sam than have baker. I know they are different but I don't think it's enough of an upgrade to make a move.
    The fact that everyone after TL would be considered at around the same level is exactly why I would move on from Sam. Why pay a premium for an unknown? That money could be better spent supporting the new QB.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrX27 View Post
    You wouldn't trade Sam for Baker straight up, if you could?
    No. I think if Sam had that line and that running game, he would do at least as well as Baker.



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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiley6 View Post
    The fact that everyone after TL would be considered at around the same level is exactly why I would move on from Sam. Why pay a premium for an unknown? That money could be better spent supporting the new QB.
    I certainly understand that logic. I really don't have too many issues with anything but giving up too much for Watson.
    If they take a QB and move on, cool. If they keep Sam and get more picks, cool
    It's really why I am so excited for this off season. I think any move they make, brings hope and will make the team better.

    Also, do you guys know what day FA starts? March 17th. St Patricks day. What is the color of St Patties day?

    Mutha ****in Green baby!



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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    No. I think if Sam had that line and that running game, he would do at least as well as Baker.
    I can't put it all on the OL and running game, Darnold hasn't been good.

    I would make that trade, to me Baker has proven himself better than Darnold so far.
    As we've seen Baker progress as a QB.
    Can't say the same for Sam at the moment.

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