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Thread: Offseason 2021

  1. #16
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  2. #17
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    A lot of DB coaches too and could low-key I wonder if they may low-key be interviewing potential replacements for Gray ff hired as DC. The interviews seem to suggest. It seems to solidify Gray as the top internal candidate. Some interesting names who have been under some interesting DC's in the past.
    Last edited by IRNMN; 02-01-2021 at 02:14 PM.

  3. #18
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    A few things to not with these candidates. It almost seems like there is going to be an organizational shift in how we use the LB's.

    Joe Barry would almost suggest we are shifting schemes to more of a 4-3/Tampa 2 look. This could mean a really high priority of LB's in this draft. Harris and Richard both are from single high and cover 3 looks. This actually could be good news for Josh Jackson, but to the point, this system needs 3 down off-the ball LB's. They're also expected to reach out to Wade Phillips, Wisconsin Badgers’ defensive coordinator Jim Leonhard, Kris Kocurek of the 49ers. Other rumored names include Kacy Rodgers, Teryl Austin, and James Bettcher.

    Who the next DC is going to say a lot about the view of the defense and the direction of the off-season.

  4. #19
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    I had this disagreement with someone else the other day, we don't have the defensive personnel to change to a 4-3. We would need at least 2 IDL instead of 1, Clark would fill one spot but, you would need to bring in 2 others to complete the rotation with keke (i'm figuring Lowry is gone) I think you would hurt Za'darius production by putting his hand in the dirt, he has had a ton of success being able to rush from a dozen different places, you could maybe have him as one of your up backers but, I don't know if I want to put him in coverage at all. Preston smith, if kept would be 1 end and you would have to figure Gary would be the other so you would need probably 1 or 2 more ends for depth. you need stand up backers, Barnes played great and hopefully can continue building but, he even came from a 3-4 scheme in college, Martin we don't know yet he was splashy but not consistent, They have been raving about Burks but, he really hasn't shown a lot outside of ST,

    thats a lot of guys to try and bring in with a small amount of money to do it with and I think trying to switch to a different defense would be a step back right now.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackerBum9786 View Post
    I had this disagreement with someone else the other day, we don't have the defensive personnel to change to a 4-3. We would need at least 2 IDL instead of 1, Clark would fill one spot but, you would need to bring in 2 others to complete the rotation with keke (i'm figuring Lowry is gone) I think you would hurt Za'darius production by putting his hand in the dirt, he has had a ton of success being able to rush from a dozen different places, you could maybe have him as one of your up backers but, I don't know if I want to put him in coverage at all. Preston smith, if kept would be 1 end and you would have to figure Gary would be the other so you would need probably 1 or 2 more ends for depth. you need stand up backers, Barnes played great and hopefully can continue building but, he even came from a 3-4 scheme in college, Martin we don't know yet he was splashy but not consistent, They have been raving about Burks but, he really hasn't shown a lot outside of ST,

    thats a lot of guys to try and bring in with a small amount of money to do it with and I think trying to switch to a different defense would be a step back right now.
    I posted something similar in another thread. We’re 4 contributing players away from being able to play a 4-3. I just don’t see it.

  6. #21
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    No one really plays a system like that anymore though. Even the 4-3 teams let guys rush from a 2 pts stance if they want. Any DC worth hiring will be able to adjust his system to the talent we have. The difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 has a lot more to do with gap responsibility than hand up or down.

    And even if we run a 4-3 type of concept, we aren't going to have 3 off ball linebackers very often most likely. So many teams play nickel almost exclusively and we don't have a great coverage lb. The teams that can get away with playing base more often than others are the teams who have to elite ilbs who can cover and defend the run. We don't have that regardless of whether we play 4-3 or 3-4, so we'll need to be in nickel a ton.

  7. #22
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    I don’t care what we run. Just be the defense we saw the last 4 games of the year instead of the team the first 7 games of the year.

    We ended the year with a top 10 defense. And I’m ok with that.

  8. #23
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    I would really like to see some more blitzing from our defense. We had 10.5 sacks by players not on our defensive line, whoever it really didn't seem like that many. I like Jim Leonard's aggressiveness, age, intellengence, and resumes whoever he did a lot of dual inside backs blitz that I don't think will translate real well to the nfl. I would probably be fine with any of the guys mentioned as long as we get a little creativity with the defense. I don't think it matter much with the 3/4 or 4/3 talk. I kind of like the idea of getting a bigger safety to play like a middle linebacker/S hybrid and having 3 safeties on the field.

    Any chance JJ Watt doesn't get trade and ends up being cut. I can't see us being able to trade for his contract, but if he is a free agent I think Watt would probably give us a hometown discount. If so I would have to order a Jersey immediately. Gary, Z. Smith, Clark, and Watt would probably be a top 2 or 3 d line, with a ton of versatility to move guys around.

    I don't know if RFA work like the NBA but what would anyone think about trading at peak value on Tonyan? I would think we could get a high 2nd if not a 1st, save some money, and still have Sternberger, Deguira, and a mid-round rookie still (I know not great). I really like Tonyan but for a 1st round pick I would have to send him. I feel like he caught a ton of slip passes that most TE's would be able to do and those passes while essential to our offense kind of bloated his stats.
    Last edited by jay87shot; 02-02-2021 at 10:32 AM.

  9. #24
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    To clarify, I'm not suggesting that we should switch schemes. I've said in other threads the issue is quality not so much the tactics. We would need to devote most of the draft if we were to make a full shift. Side note, if you are able to keep Turner and Aaron Jones for example the need to draft an abundance of offensive personnel goes down quite a bit. It would come down to depth players and a slot receiver. We need CB (4-3 or 3-4 base), if not 2, we would need at least 2 LB's (1 for 3-4; 2 for 4-3) and depends on how you project Martin and Barnes, and we would need the DL (4-3 or 3-4). If the salary cap doesn't drop drastically the shift to a 4-3 base is far more practical.

    At the same time above, I wasn't arguing we need to make the shift, but rather point out some of the schemes the interviewees likely adhere to. If that is the ultimate plan they can begin to implement portions of the base defense and draft personnel. As a few points above have identified teams don't really play strictly in their base scheme, to begin with. Doesn't matter the scheme we go to we need to upgrade personnel and aspects of the scheme.

    Joe Barry 4-3/Tampa 2, Chris Harris a Rivera product likely runs a 4-3 front with single high and cover 3 looks. Kris Richard (officially added to interview list) is of a similar mindset and well versed in cover 3. Not that these individuals can't shift philosophy or make hybrids. There is going to be some level is of philosophical change coming. I would argue of the early list Kris Richard, Chris Harris on paper may seem to be the most appealing options. I think Joe Barry of the group listed so far is the long shot, and Evero the wild card.

    A big part of it is doing his due diligence. The ability for this team to take the turn to the Super Bowl largely relies on the defense stepping up their game. Gray, he's been known to run more of a 3-2-6 scheme. A number of the DC hires seems to either make or break a few borderline players like Jackson. Another thing to note, it really seems they could be a shift in mindset over the LB value in this system.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    To clarify, I'm not suggesting that we should switch schemes. I've said in other threads the issue is quality not so much the tactics. We would need to devote most of the draft if we were to make a full shift. Side note, if you are able to keep Turner and Aaron Jones for example the need to draft an abundance of offensive personnel goes down quite a bit. It would come down to depth players and a slot receiver. We need CB (4-3 or 3-4 base), if not 2, we would need at least 2 LB's (1 for 3-4; 2 for 4-3) and depends on how you project Martin and Barnes, and we would need the DL (4-3 or 3-4). If the salary cap doesn't drop drastically the shift to a 4-3 base is far more practical.

    At the same time above, I wasn't arguing we need to make the shift, but rather point out some of the schemes the interviewees likely adhere to. If that is the ultimate plan they can begin to implement portions of the base defense and draft personnel. As a few points above have identified teams don't really play strictly in their base scheme, to begin with. Doesn't matter the scheme we go to we need to upgrade personnel and aspects of the scheme.

    Joe Barry 4-3/Tampa 2, Chris Harris a Rivera product likely runs a 4-3 front with single high and cover 3 looks. Kris Richard (officially added to interview list) is of a similar mindset and well versed in cover 3. Not that these individuals can't shift philosophy or make hybrids. There is going to be some level is of philosophical change coming. I would argue of the early list Kris Richard, Chris Harris on paper may seem to be the most appealing options. I think Joe Barry of the group listed so far is the long shot, and Evero the wild card.

    A big part of it is doing his due diligence. The ability for this team to take the turn to the Super Bowl largely relies on the defense stepping up their game. Gray, he's been known to run more of a 3-2-6 scheme. A number of the DC hires seems to either make or break a few borderline players like Jackson. Another thing to note, it really seems they could be a shift in mindset over the LB value in this system.
    I would tend to agree with this. That being said, I'm not positive we need as many linebackers as people think. Martin could be a perfect Sam. Barnes was calling plays already and is probably your Mike. We likely need a Will, bit it's possible Burks fits that role better than anything we've done with him yet. It also might not be an awful spot to bring back kirksey for on the cheap, considering he's unlikely to cost much more than a vet min. I think, depending on coordinator and situation, it's not out of the question to see a guy like Greene if he can ever get healthy or maybe Vernon Scott in a hybrid Will/Safety role.

    Andy Herman had an interesting observation on Evero in Twitter. Hes a Rams coach. The rams DC left to become a head coach. The rams DC position opened up, yet neither guy, saw it fit to promote him to DC and he never even got a promotion with either team. Despite the openings, he's still just the Rams safeties coach. Doesn't mean he's not a good coach and can't be a good coordinator, just on the surface a bit concerning that the two coaches who have worked with him most recently weren't in a hurry to promote him.

    Richard is interesting as well, but I find it super hard to judge any coach during the legion of boom era. That defense was just stacked and that defense largely called itself. Wagner, Sherman and Thomas are probably HOF type talents. Bennett, Avril and chancellor were consistent pro bowl level guys. Bennett and Avril were good enough to get pressure without blitzing, Thomas was the ultimate eraser in centerfield and Sherman is one of the best zone corners of all time. Plus Wagner and even the younger versions of guys like Wright were good enough coverage linebackers that you could stay in base. Not saying Richard is a bad coordinator or anything or that he can't get creative. But in the heyday of those Seattle defenses, the coordinator really wasn't doing a ton of exotic stuff. Seattle could mostly just say we are going to do our thing and not get cute and it will probably beat you.

    Gray seems like a solid coach. Jackson looked okay when he played. King had some awful moments, but largely wasn't terrible despite what akot of fans think. Jaire continued his development. Savage and Amos both looked pretty good. So he did a good job with his group. Not sure that translates to being a good coordinator, but it should be a plus mark in his column for sure.

    I think for me, the most important traits are openness and willingness to change. One of my biggest pettine frustrations is he rarely varied his scheme. Sure, he dialed up blitzes once and awhile, but largely the game plan was more or less the same each week. The patriots have been the banner organization of that for a long time. And by openness, I prefer someone who's strict on their defensive principals, since you need an identity, but I don't want a guy who's says we have to play this exact scheme. I'd rather task the GM with just acquiring defensive talent and the DC figures out how to fit those guys in, not the DC has strict requirements for players and the GM has his hands tied to find those guys.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 02-02-2021 at 11:55 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I would tend to agree with this. That being said, I'm not positive we need as many linebackers as people think. Martin could be a perfect Sam. Barnes was calling plays already and is probably your Mike. We likely need a Will, bit it's possible Burks fits that role better than anything we've done with him yet. It also might not be an awful spot to bring back kirksey for on the cheap, considering he's unlikely to cost much more than a vet min. I think, depending on coordinator and situation, it's not out of the question to see a guy like Greene if he can ever get healthy or maybe Vernon Scott in a hybrid Will/Safety role.

    Andy Herman had an interesting observation on Evero in Twitter. Hes a Rams coach. The rams DC left to become a head coach. The rams DC position opened up, yet neither guy, who's worked with him recently, saw it fit to promote him to DC and he never even got a promotion with either team. Despite the openings, he's still just the Rams safeties coach. Doesn't mean he's not a good coach and can't be a good coordinator, just on the surface a bit concerning that the two coaches who have worked with him most recently weren't in a hurry to promote him.

    Richard is interesting as well, but I find it super hard to judge any coach during the legion of boom era. That defense was just stacked and that defense largely called itself. Wagner, Sherman and Thomas are probably HOF type talents. Bennett, Avril and chancellor were consistent pro bowl level guys. Bennett and Avril were good enough to get pressure without blitzing, Thomas was the ultimate eraser in centerfield and Sherman is one of the best zone corners of all time. Plus Wagner and even the younger versions of guys like Wright were good enough coverage linebackers that you could stay in base. Not saying Richard is a bad coordinator or anything or that he can't get creative. But in the heyday of those Seattle defenses, the coordinator really wasn't doing a ton of exotic stuff. Seattle could mostly just say we are going to do our thing and not get cute and it will probably beat you.
    I agree I think LB is a bit over blown, but at least my argument would be the LB question is do we need depth at LB or do we need another starter. At this point in a 3-4 base we need depth. If something happens to Barnes or Martin there is no way we can trust Summers or Burk. If we hypothetically shift to a 4-3 we need another starter. I'm not penciling in Oren Burk as the WILL. We would even with Kirksey back need to draft 2 LB's for depth at a minimum in a theoretical 4-3 shift. Martin isn't exactly known for being healthy that was his big question coming out of the draft, and he missed almost half the season. Kirksey isn't known for his health either. So a minimum we need to add some solid tacklers for depth at LB.

    I think Evero is really a wild card here. I don't think he is getting the job. Part of me wonders if low key they may be considering him as a replacement for Gray if they chose to promote Gray. Obviously, that's not going to be published. I'm not sure I would trust him as the DC I think both Jerry Gray and Mike Smith are more appealing candidates internally.

    Richard is certainly a bit of an unknown, the fact he was unemployed this past season is something I would question to an extend. I think if someone eternally gets the job they were either super impressive or has a proven track record (IE a Wade Phillips). At least from outside the organization standpoint both Gray and Smith have enough from other systems to switch things up. Silverstein reported today this and what Gray's system could look like:

    Two assistant coaches with knowledge of Gray said that he was the logical choice for the job because he could adapt to the Packers’ talent and would be able to transition to his own scheme relatively easily.

    There are some similarities between what Pettine and Gray run, but according to one of the assistants Gray, 58, would run a 4-3 defense instead of a 3-4. However, he said based on what Gray did as Titans coordinator, he would still be able to use outside linebackers Za’Darius Smith, Preston Smith and Rashan Gary effectively.

    He said all three would be defensive ends, but they would line up wide almost as though they were outside linebackers and while their hand would be on the ground, they would still have plenty of opportunity to rush the passer. In the run game, their job would be to funnel everything to the middle.

    “If he plays Kenny Clark at the 1-technique (instead of nose tackle), it would make him a star,” the coach said. “He would be able to penetrate and freelance and make plays. They could put Dean Lowry or someone else at the 3-technique and the ends would squeeze the gaps.

    "Jerry would disguise a lot of what he is doing, making the quarterback do a lot of post-snap reading.”

  12. #27
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    A few names to be added to the list for potential candidates:

    -Jim Leonhard is officially taking an interview
    -Bob Sutton Falcons special assistant (already completed)
    -Ryan Nielson Saints DL coach
    -Matt Burke Eagles DL coach

    Gray is officially getting an interview. Barry, Evero, and Harris have also already interviewed. A lot of intrigue with Leonhard.

  13. #28
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    Looks like Richard is probably out. He signed a deal to be the saints secondary coach. I'm sure he could get out of it if he got the DC job, but him taking the job today seems like a move from someone who doesn't think he's getting the Packers job.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Looks like Richard is probably out. He signed a deal to be the saints secondary coach. I'm sure he could get out of it if he got the DC job, but him taking the job today seems like a move from someone who doesn't think he's getting the Packers job.
    Perhaps he was only on the list for due diligence and connection to Dan Quinn. On one side of the coin, if he was a legit candidate for the DC spot, I'm not sure he takes the job. At the same time maybe he's just making sure he's employed next season. Like you said he could accept the job and head to GB. As the names are starting to pile in I would argue his candidacy may be in the middle of the pack. I'm hearing they are waiting also to interview two of Todd Bowles coordinators as well Kacey Rogers and Mike Caldwell. They are now being connected to Chris Kiffin. To be honest, Jim Leonhard if willing to take the job may be hard to pass.

  15. #30
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    Packers officially not interviewing Wade Phillips.

    Longtime defensive mastermind Wade Phillips is not on that list.

    According to a source who confirmed Leonhard as part of*a list compiled by ESPN.com’s Rob Demovsky, Phillips is not a candidate for coach Matt LaFleur as he searches for Mike Pettine’s replacement.

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