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Thread: Offseason 2021

  1. #31
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    while I am not advocating for Jim Leonhard, I will say he makes a little bit of sense in the fact he has a lot of experience in the Pettine defense so it wouldn't be that much of a transition and obviously he would be a little more in touch with the secondary aspect.

  2. #32
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    Really Leonhard has to be in their top 3 in my view. Bob Sutton is officially off the list but doesn't really fit with the rest of the group. The majority of this group is 50 or under, with the exception of Gray, and I think Gray is getting the interview out of respect. By no stretch of the imagination am I saying age is a major factor, but the next DC is trending towards a younger coach. I think Barry is a long shot meaning with the exception of Gray, the next DC at most will be two years older than LaFleur.

    -Jim Leonhard (38 yo)
    -Chris Harris (38 yo)
    -Chris Kiffin (39 yo)
    -Ejiro Evero
    -Ryan Nielsen
    -Matt Burke (43 yo)
    -Joe Barry (50)
    -Jerry Gray (58)

    In his presser, it seems to suggest he's looking for a guy who will be more aggressive. He also seems to be leaning towards guys with DB experience or guys with a history of developing DL guys. Not sure if anyone else will be added to the list. Looking at this list I might even consider Gray a long shot.

    I would honestly call the top 3 Leonhard, Burke, and Nielsen.

  3. #33
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    More news on the DC search it seems like LaFleur has potentially narrowed to a top 3.

    LaFleur is starting to inform candidates they didn’t make the finals. Differing opinions from people with limited knowledge seems to indicate Leonhard, Evero, and Barry are top 3 with second interviews being conducted today. This is not the final word, just some sources’ feel. https://t.co/TFhxSEGzfr

    — Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) February 5, 2021
    This wouldn't seem to mean an internal candidate is off the books here. You really shouldn't need a second interview for an internal candidate.

    A few talking points on the DC search, I'm curious how many people think Jim Leonhard could succeed at the NFL level. One major concern I would have outside of no NFL experience is that the Wisconsin D was solid before Leonhard under Dave Aranda. Yes, you can look at Leonhard and say he a good unit better. Obviously a popular hire for some, but one has to wonder how much it would take to lure him as he's been a top college coach candidate. If he remains in place it may not be long before he's the HC some where.

    Barry is a hard name to analyze because advanced analytics love him, traditional ones seem to hate him. Traditional numbers show Barry has never led a defense that finished better than 28th in yards allowed or higher than 17th in scoring. He never really had many talents at either of his DC gigs, in Detroit his top talents were Ernie Sims and Paris Lenon. In Washington, he had Ryan Kerrigan, Josh Norman (year 2), and rookie Preston. During the 2015 and 2016 seasons, he served as Washington’s defensive coordinator. Barry’s defense was ranked 28th in yards allowed for both seasons while it was a slightly better 17th and 19th in points allowed respectively. Barry's system in the front will run showed varied coverages. Barry has shown to be a good position coach, but yet to show he can run a defense.

    Evero remains such a wild card. If he can become anything like Fangio or Staley that would be huge. Many have viewed him as an up and comer.

    Demovsky suggested that there may be another finalist, though he would not name that individual.

  4. #34
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    I think part of leonard is his background as a player too. He was always thought of as the coach on the field type of guy. He also played under some really good 3-4 coaches in his day too. And that obviously doesn't automatically make him a good coach, but you see him succeed at the collegiate level with a similar system to the systems he played in and it makes you think he can make the transition. I'm not sure how I feel about him personally, but indefinitely get it.

    I know pettine fell out of favor with fans, but I don't think he was awful. So leonard could bring a similar system with possibly a few tweaks that helps unlock guys without overhauling assignments and things like that. Again, not saying I agree with it fully, but I get the allure.

    And from Leonard's perspective, I think NFL DC is probably just as prestigious of job as alot of collegiate HC spots. He's probably not taking over Wisconsin any time too soon, so his next stop would have likely been a HC gig at a non power 5 school or a lower end power 5 school. I'm biased because I would hate recruiting, but I'd rather be an NFL DC than the HC of someone like Illinois or Vanderbilt or South Florida or something like that.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I think part of leonard is his background as a player too. He was always thought of as the coach on the field type of guy. He also played under some really good 3-4 coaches in his day too. And that obviously doesn't automatically make him a good coach, but you see him succeed at the collegiate level with a similar system to the systems he played in and it makes you think he can make the transition. I'm not sure how I feel about him personally, but indefinitely get it.

    I know pettine fell out of favor with fans, but I don't think he was awful. So leonard could bring a similar system with possibly a few tweaks that helps unlock guys without overhauling assignments and things like that. Again, not saying I agree with it fully, but I get the allure.

    And from Leonard's perspective, I think NFL DC is probably just as prestigious of job as alot of collegiate HC spots. He's probably not taking over Wisconsin any time too soon, so his next stop would have likely been a HC gig at a non power 5 school or a lower end power 5 school. I'm biased because I would hate recruiting, but I'd rather be an NFL DC than the HC of someone like Illinois or Vanderbilt or South Florida or something like that.
    yeah i saw a story where when he was playing for the jets he came up with the whole defensive game plan against the patriots.

  6. #36
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    It looks like Ejiro Evero is going to be named the next DC fairly soon. Multiple reports suggest it was between Evero and Leonhard.

    As speculated above Leonhard has taken his name out of the running. As a top HC candidate at the college ranks and overall commitment to the Badger program, Leonhard stays in the college ranks. I'm wondering if Leonhard's about to get a raise in Madison. Leonhard was the first choice but chose to stay at UW. Really sounds like he's got eyes on taking over the Badgers in a few years.

    After careful consideration, University of #Wisconsin defensive coordinator Jim Leonard informed #Packers coach Matt LaFleur Friday night that he will not accept the same position in Green Bay, according to Leonhard and his agent, Tim Valentyn of Madison. (More to come)

    — Tom Oates (@TomOatesWSJ) February 6, 2021
    Oates reports that Leonhard was indeed offered the Packers’ job on Friday, but elected to turn it down.

    Leonhard is reportedly seen as the Badgers’ heir apparent to head coach Paul Chryst, which may have played heavily into his decision to remain in Madison. Leonhard also has three sons, and uprooting them in the middle of a school year — and a pandemic — was surely a consideration as well.
    LaFleur has played this search close to the vest, but numerous sources around the NFL, including associates of some of the candidates on the long list, are convinced it is Wisconsin defensive coordinator Jim Leonhard’s job if he wants it.

    Los Angeles Rams safeties coach Ejiro Evero is firmly in the hunt as well.

    It’s possible some of the others on the original list LaFleur set out to interview are still in the running, but a source familiar with the search said several candidates have already been told they were not getting hired and that Leonhard and Evero appeared to be the top two choices.
    Really sounding like Evero is going to be the guy unless they are leaning towards an internal candidate.
    Last edited by IRNMN; 02-06-2021 at 12:06 PM.

  7. #37
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    Then again I guess it's not so settled. Silverstein reporting:

    It's sounding like LaFleur is leaning more toward Joe Barry than Ejiro Evero as his next defensive coordinator. The two were together with the Los Angeles Rams in '17. Barry has experience as a coordinator in Detroit ('07-'08) and Washington ('15-'16).

    Who knows. I'm not really against either hire.
    Last edited by IRNMN; 02-06-2021 at 01:35 PM.

  8. #38
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    Last I heard it was Leonard, Barry and Ejiro but Demovsky also said he was told there was 1 other candidate l, but didn't name who. I wouldn't be shocked if one of the internal candidates are still in consideration. Probably not much need for a second round of formal interviews for an internal guy as you know him pretty well.

    Coaching in the NFL is just weird in general. I think situation, fit and even sometimes luck matters so much more than people give credit for. So it's hard to say a guy like Barry will suck cuz his defenses sucked previously. And the fact that Mcvay and LA's former DC didn't give Ejiro that role is scary too. But that stuff could mean nothing.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Last I heard it was Leonard, Barry and Ejiro but Demovsky also said he was told there was 1 other candidate l, but didn't name who. I wouldn't be shocked if one of the internal candidates are still in consideration. Probably not much need for a second round of formal interviews for an internal guy as you know him pretty well.

    Coaching in the NFL is just weird in general. I think situation, fit and even sometimes luck matters so much more than people give credit for. So it's hard to say a guy like Barry will suck cuz his defenses sucked previously. And the fact that Mcvay and LA's former DC didn't give Ejiro that role is scary too. But that stuff could mean nothing.
    Not getting Leonhard bites, but you get why he didn't take the job at the same time. I'm really seeing Leonhard as a similar guy to Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern and will be super committed to the Badgers. Badgers fans likely can breathe lightly because if the Packers couldn't lure him into a short move not likely he's getting lured by any other NFL squad.

    I think when it comes to Barry I think part of his issue was lack of talent. He was part of two pretty poor teams before. However, there are some metrics that seem to suggest he can do the job. The biggest thing with Barry for me Barry would be what scheme does he run. Lafleur's had plenty of experience with Barry to know how he thinks.

    Evero not being hired by McVay doesn't concern me all that much. I think Lafleur has done a solid job finding coaches and coordinators. The only hire you really can knock him for maybe Mennenga, but there was good reason to hire Mennenga. All the ST issues weren't on Menenega either. I also don't know if McVay passing on him means all that much, he can make mistakes too. I don't think that's what occurred. Really, if I were to wager the hiring of Raheem Morris indicates McVay wanted an experience. Lafleur has made it clear in his hiring he wants innovation, but the question is now going to be how much innovation or "up and comer" does he want vs. previous experience.

    I think Barry's gotten a bad rap due to coordinating bad teams. I think Evero's work with some top defensive minds like Fangio, Staley, etc. makes him a very interesting candidate. I'm assuming if there's an in-house guy it's Gray, but I'm not writing off Mike Smith either. Whoever Lafleur hires from the candidate pool is going to get him criticized by armchair GM's. It's crazy some of the reaction a number of people have already given to Barry in particular.

  10. #40
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    Joe Barry officially named the DC

    Per Rob Demovsky:
    The Packers are planning to Joe Barry as defensive coordinator, a source told

  11. #41
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    from Yahoo about the hiring: "Barry was the defensive coordinator in Detroit in 2007 and 2008. The Lions defense ranked last in yards and points allowed. With Berry as the defensive coordinator in 2015 and 2016, Washington ranked 17th and 19th in points allowed, respectively, and 28th in yards both seasons." Green Bay has holes and i'm not sure he can get average players to play better. my first reaction mehhhhhh. personally i was hoping for a deep dive of Wade Phillips. i hope i am very wrong and i hope to be proved wrong.
    Last edited by alabastertubby; 02-06-2021 at 08:40 PM.

  12. #42
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    Hey it took forever but norm and others always talked **** about my takes from firing tt and mm and dc to how horrid our defense was etc It again has always been proven right but here is another thing I have screamed over for atleast 6 years

    https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/b...p-wasting-time


    its seriously ****ing annoying. It constantly costs us timeouts or we get flagged or we just run the clock when our offense is hot and it gives the defense time to adjust. Its not worth the few flags a year we get for a free play.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Hey it took forever but norm and others always talked **** about my takes from firing tt and mm and dc to how horrid our defense was etc It again has always been proven right but here is another thing I have screamed over for atleast 6 years

    https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/b...p-wasting-time


    its seriously ****ing annoying. It constantly costs us timeouts or we get flagged or we just run the clock when our offense is hot and it gives the defense time to adjust. Its not worth the few flags a year we get for a free play.
    It's not really an issue for me. We aren't getting to line late from not getting the play call in. So it is mostly Rodgers using all the time to dissect the defense and make any adjustments. We basically had the best offense in the league last year, so whatever they are doing is clearly working.

    Comments from Brian Urlacher on the Packers doing this from a couple years ago

    "He always had the upper hand because he knows the damn play clock. So he knows the situation, if we had enough time on the clock where we could get a check in because we know when we’re in Cover-2 he’s probably going to check to a run, so we could check to Cover-1 if we had time. Or if we were in Cover-1, he'd check to a pass and we could try to check to Cover-2 or a blitz somehow. Because he always knew our defense.

    You know, he’s such a smart guy, he always undressed our defense with the leg-kick thing and the fake count and we’d show our hand and he’d know what defense we were in. I mean, they ALWAYS ended up in the right call. So I would say he got the upper hand in most of those situations."

    Q: So running the clock down is smart?
    Urlacher: "Yeah, why wouldn’t you? You’ve got to use that play-clock to your advantage. That’s why he does it. So he can know exactly what defense you’re in and as a defensive player it puts you in a bind, because there’s a certain point in the play clock where you have to show him what you’re doing. Or the ball’s going to be snapped and you’re not going to be lined up correctly. So we have to get to our spots and as soon as you do, he knows exactly what you’re doing. So he knows what defense you’re in."

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Hey it took forever but norm and others always talked **** about my takes from firing tt and mm and dc to how horrid our defense was etc It again has always been proven right but here is another thing I have screamed over for atleast 6 years

    https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/b...p-wasting-time


    its seriously ****ing annoying. It constantly costs us timeouts or we get flagged or we just run the clock when our offense is hot and it gives the defense time to adjust. Its not worth the few flags a year we get for a free play.
    This is one time I will disagree with you. Listen to a segment on the Pat Mcafee show from earlier this year where Pat calls him out for this exact thing. Rodgers knows what he is doing and purposely uses the entire clock to make last second adjustments that a defense cant adjust for.

  15. #45
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    I'm with most of the guys above. For most QB's this would be an issue, but the whole picture needs to be taken in. If Rodgers was doing this because of confusion it would be an issue, but this is part of his greatness. To say he takes too long almost ignores the fact when there an opportunity he snaps quickly. I think on this matter I think you have to look at the opposite, Rodgers is methodical on both sides of this matter too. If he sees a favorable matchup, a player offsides, or 12 men he's probably the quickest and best at getting those extra yards, extra plays, etc.

    I agree with the things above he is doing this to often read the defense and exploit an opposing defense. It can be frustrating to see it get close but rarely does this result in a delay of game penalties. A lot of the timeouts take are generally not because of the clock it's he doesn't like the defensive look, but he's often trying to draw them offsides before calling the timeout.

    To say this isn't worth it would be hard to argue I read once he gains anywhere from 225-300 extra yards a season in free plays just on the mindset he can air it out. In his career, he's gained almost 3,000 yards (I think like 2700) on free plays alone. If I'm not mistaken under Rodgers they've averaged 5 delay of game penalties. 2019 was the only time they took more than 7. Even if you remove the penalty yards here that's 2,400 additional net yards of doing so and an average of 200 net yards each season gained. That doesn't include the yards gained from the penalties. The benefits greatly outweigh the risk.

    Another factor too is a lot of this offense genius is constantly shifting and motioning you really can't do much of that with quick snaps. I think it's far too complex of a discussion. It's not a black and white issue to say. Sure he may take an extra sack here and there, sure drives may sputter at times, but at the same time, the same motion and movement can give you a LB covering MVS on a deep route. The same motion and gives you a wide-open Davante Adams vs. Jalen Ramsey. I think even if it's an issue it's such a small one there is nothing that you could quantitatively point to say it's significantly impacted a game.

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