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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    I mean, Westbrook won it being a 6 seed in the West, so I don't really buy that argument.

    Jokic is top 2 for me, statistically.
    Kobeís 35.4 PPG in 05-06 as 7th seed in the tougher west at that time and 31.6 PPG in 06-07 as 7th seed didnít receive MVP consideration.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    While I don't necessarily disagree, I also don't think Lebron is the defender that Kawhi is anymore. Also, he's not producing statistically at the level Kawhi is right now in terms fo the advanced numbers. While I understand your point here, we have to have SOME kind of barometers and factors to determine this award. If we used the same justification you described, Lebron would win it every year regardless of the numbers, which isn't fair.



    I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. Both teams are really good and have similarly talented supporting casts. Both teams have similar records. But the bottom line is that Kawhi's numbers are a little better right now than Lebron's.
    Fewer rebounds , fewer assists , lower eFG%, all in 2 more mpg

    Better defender minute to minute but we all know it's about the lecoast for most of the game, end of game lebron still shuts down elite talent

    I guess I don't see how he's more valuable even numbers wise at that point. Inferior passer, inferior rebounder, lower eFG%, (and we know lebron takes tougher shots than Kawhi game to game ), better defender.




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    Last edited by blams; 01-27-2021 at 04:24 PM.

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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaVar Ball View Post
    Kobeís 35.4 PPG in 05-06 as 7th seed in the tougher west at that time and 31.6 PPG in 06-07 as 7th seed didnít receive MVP consideration.
    He also wasn't close to averaging a triple-double in either season lol

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Fewer rebounds , fewer assists , lower eFG%, all in 2 more mpg

    Better defender minute to minute but we all know it's about the lecoast for most of the game, end of game lebron still shuts down elite talent

    I guess I don't see how he's more valuable even numbers wise at that point. Inferior passer, inferior rebounder, lower eFG%, (and we know lebron takes tougher shots than Kawhi game to game ), better defender.

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
    Higher PER, TS%, WS, WS/48 and BPM, and half as many turnovers per game, and generally superior defense. He's been a little better than Lebron up to this point.

    If you're asking me, gun to my head, who would I rather have if I'm picking to build a team to win a championship tomorrow, it's Lebron all day. But the MVP award is not a "who is generally the best player in the league most of the time" award. It's a "who has literally been the best player in the league this season" award. Lebron is pretty much always the answer to that first one, but the reason he doesn't win it every year is because he's not always the best player within the scope of that specific regular season.


  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I came ready to argue with "load management" talk, but I was shocked to see Kawhi averaging a career high 34.5 MPG this season. He has missed three of the Clippers' 18 games so far, but that's still a fairly small amount. However, if you average that out over a smaller 71 game season, that's almost 17% of the season, or 12 games. That could hurt Kawhi's chances over guys who play 65+.

    But that's just projecting over a full season. Right now I'd agree with you that Kawhi's case for MVP is stronger than Lebron's. He'd probably be sitting third for me behind Jokic and Embiid.
    Agreed on all counts, I got the bigs ahead of the pack thus far. Kawhis missed some games but whatever games any player misses for Covid protocols shouldn't weigh too heavily in a year like this imo. Bron and AD aren't going full bore and dont carry the load as much as Kawhi has is my main selling point, that along with his superior impact+statistics from what I can gather.


    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Kawhi doesn't lecoach the offense AND defense , and dictate matchups/make plays all the time.

    Bron's basketball iq makes him more valuable even if he's scoring 5 less per game. No one else controls the flow of the game like he does.


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    Hes actually running more of the offense than ever before but hes deadlier when he doesn't have to over do it, so I dont really see the point in pointing out that one is more of a point guard. PG's aren't inherently more valuable if they're less productive/efficient on both ends.

    I disagree with Bron being more valuable, hes clearly coasting and the team is on board with massaging his minutes as this is clearly a deeper team than last year after the off-season upgrades. The Lakers have been a far superior team this year but at this point in the season, the wins havent added up to really give him the narrative boost of top player on best team just yet. If somehow the Clippers managed to overperform their efficiency differentials enough to actually end up with a similar record to the Lakers, then Bron should have no chance of winning unless theres some sort of statistical/objective measure.

    One loss without PG/KL doesn't change the fact that the Clippers were a 50 win team that added in 2 of the top 3 mvp candidates.

    The team is built around those two now, so of course at this point they're not going to do well when you take both off the court.
    You just contradicted yourself. On one hand you're saying they were a 50 win team that added 2 of the top 3MVP candidates (Kawhi wasn't a top 3 candidate btw, nor did they simply add those 2) yet in the very next breath say they are a different team now built around those 2. Uhh , thats the point, they are more important/valuable to the team precisely because we dont have the same go-to talent to coast. So wtf does 2 years ago with a different team have to do with TODAYS MVP race? LOL, I'd be with you if you didn't just admit its utter irrelevancy to suit your other argument.

    Again, you mentioned the Lakers without their 2-stars, hes doing the same but highlighting the most important star. Feel free to share any kind of quantifiable evidence to support your narrative here.




    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    You probably saw that my original rankings have Kawhi third. But LeBron is definitely an MVP contender. Looking back, he's had a better season so far than Giannis.
    Giannis is off to a slow start but hes also playing more too, I think he'll make his case for MVP soon enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    I didn't agree with Westbrook winning though.
    That was Kawhi's MVP too.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Higher PER, TS%, WS, WS/48 and BPM, and half as many turnovers per game, and generally superior defense. He's been a little better than Lebron up to this point.

    If you're asking me, gun to my head, who would I rather have if I'm picking to build a team to win a championship tomorrow, it's Lebron all day. But the MVP award is not a "who is generally the best player in the league most of the time" award. It's a "who has literally been the best player in the league this season" award. Lebron is pretty much always the answer to that first one, but the reason he doesn't win it every year is because he's not always the best player within the scope of that specific regular season.
    Kawhi has low key sucked on defense this year. IDK if hes coasting or if hes lost some of the juice in his step but he did this last year to start the season too. I think taking on more of the offensive burden has him conserving defensive energy but last year he upped his effort level around the middle of the season and starting looking like the Klaw again so Im hopeful its not just decline.

  7. #52
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    Best #ís go to Embiid and Joker.

    LeBronís leadership is what separates him from every single player this season.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjorge View Post
    Best #ís go to Embiid and Joker.

    LeBronís leadership is what separates him from every single player this season.
    Is his leadership taking a step up this year from years prior when he didn't win MVP? Cuz Im seeing the same guy for the most part, his shot looks more polished and hes not going as hard on both ends imo. His MPG are in that optimal threshold for ones overall efficiency as well. Hes prolly still the best player in the game cuz he can clearly go up another notch come playoffs but this is a RS award only. Hes got a legit case no doubt but nobody stands out right now so we're all just being trivial

  9. #54
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    My top 5 MVPs as of now:
    1-) Nikola Jokic
    2-) Kevin Durant
    3-) Joel Embiid
    4-) Lebron James
    5-) Luka Doncic

    Out of top 5: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Stephen Curry, Kawhi Leonard, Rudy Gobert, Julius Randle, Bradley Beal, Trae Young, Chris Paul, Jaylen Brown and Damian Lillard.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    He's got inferior stats to the guy with 1 less win. So what's the argument given that they're coasting
    18 seasons in a row of his output raising 25% during the playoffs from the regular season

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    While I don't necessarily disagree, I also don't think Lebron is the defender that Kawhi is anymore. Also, he's not producing statistically at the level Kawhi is right now in terms fo the advanced numbers. While I understand your point here, we have to have SOME kind of barometers and factors to determine this award. If we used the same justification you described, Lebron would win it every year regardless of the numbers, which isn't fair.



    I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. Both teams are really good and have similarly talented supporting casts. Both teams have similar records. But the bottom line is that Kawhi's numbers are a little better right now than Lebron's.
    1. Bron has the lowest fg% against this year in the entire nba.

    2. Jamal Murray thinks itís harder to score on Lebron than Kawhi.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    18 seasons in a row of his output raising 25% during the playoffs from the regular season
    thats for best player title. not regular ol mvp

  13. #58
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    I think Embiid and Jokic are top two
    KL/Bron/KD are tied for the next three

    Still a nice tight race that I think can change from one week to the next still at this point.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    thats for best player title. not regular ol mvp
    I thought you were looking for proof he was coasting

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    I thought you were looking for proof he was coasting
    LeBron legit coasted in like year 3 or 4 IIRC, I've seen him do it for years, less so other years obviously.

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