Biden Executive Order Keystone Pipeline XL

[MRSpock]

I don't think it's a partisan issue. I just don't think it's cut and dried that pipeline = bad.

And I've told you before that while ultra liberal in some areas I'm centrist or conservative in others. I'm for UBI but against big government. I'm for abortion rights but against gun control. I'm for drug legalization and not imprisoning non-violent criminals but for a secure border.

It turns out not everyone is one thing or another.

Please then lay out your position on this.

Do you believe in the scientific consensus of global warming and the danger we'll be facing in the next 50 years?

Are you for or against stopping this pipeline? And if so why?

And it is without a doubt a partisan issue. We can look up polling soon I'm sure to see who is for this and who is against it. And there will be a massive partisan divide.

[nastynice]

You think super cargo ships will sail on solar power? Pretty sure they would have to be miles across to gather enough energy to do so. There is only so much energy hitting the surface of the earth.

And we are barely scratching the surface of figuring out how to harness it. Even in the last 20 years this technology is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was.

We dont need to render oil moot for something to be successful.

California just required all new construction to have solar this year. This o going to become more and more widespread.

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[benny01]

Stuck on 2 observations

1. The water we risk destroying will shortly be a much more valuable resource than an oil product that is hell to refine

2. Lubricants mixed with sand are a wonderful way to cut through anything.

[MRSpock]

Stuck on 2 observations

1. The water we risk destroying will shortly be a much more valuable resource than an oil product that is hell to refine

2. Lubricants mixed with sand are a wonderful way to cut through anything.

Excellent points.

And TC energy doesn't exactly have the best record when it comes to spills.

[benny01]

Excellent points.

And TC energy doesn't exactly have the best record when it comes to spills.

Id prefer they banned fracking and built another few pipelines. When given that proposition we would quickly all be on the same side that the oil coming from the pipeline is insignificant. This fight is more about a companies right to degrade our environment than it is about anything else.

[Scoots]

Please then lay out your position on this.

Do you believe in the scientific consensus of global warming and the danger we'll be facing in the next 50 years?

Are you for or against stopping this pipeline? And if so why?

And it is without a doubt a partisan issue. We can look up polling soon I'm sure to see who is for this and who is against it. And there will be a massive partisan divide.

Yes.

No. I think the net effect of the pipeline can be positive.

Okay, I don't think it HAS to be a partisan issue.

[Scoots]

And we are barely scratching the surface of figuring out how to harness it. Even in the last 20 years this technology is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was.

We dont need to render oil moot for something to be successful.

California just required all new construction to have solar this year. This o going to become more and more widespread.

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The amount of energy hitting the earth from the sun is finite. We can't make it more than 100% efficient. It's not enough to move a super-cargo ship (ships that have to fit into and out of ports).

I didn't say oil has to be moot, my point was just that oil consumption is going to continue and actually climb overall and that it is a finite resource so it's value will continue to climb in time.

The CA solar requirement is a step but energy storage is still a major problem.

I'm not saying we should do nothing, far from it. I just think we should be pushing green energy outside of the country more than inside (as it's already got momentum pushing it here).

[Scoots]

Stuck on 2 observations

1. The water we risk destroying will shortly be a much more valuable resource than an oil product that is hell to refine

2. Lubricants mixed with sand are a wonderful way to cut through anything.

Fortunately if we have infinite electricity we can easily solve the water problem. That at least we have a technical solution for.

[Scoots]

Id prefer they banned fracking and built another few pipelines. When given that proposition we would quickly all be on the same side that the oil coming from the pipeline is insignificant. This fight is more about a companies right to degrade our environment than it is about anything else.

The fracking in Canada is not up to the US though.

[benny01]

Fortunately if we have infinite electricity we can easily solve the water problem. That at least we have a technical solution for.

I dont have that equipment on my farm. Now I just dig a 400ft hole and then run a pump to get clean water.

[benny01]

The fracking in Canada is not up to the US though.

Sure, and this isn't really a discussion about oil. This is a discussion about a companies right to degrade our environment. The oil is insignificant is this debate.

[MRSpock]

Yes.

No. I think the net effect of the pipeline can be positive.

Okay, I don't think it HAS to be a partisan issue.

1. Good.

2. I really don't see the positive effects.

3. I feel like almost nothing SHOULD be partisan. Remember when votes in the senate use to be a mix of both Dems and Republicans? Seems like 1000 years ago.

I agree, but this is the unfortunate era we live in.

[MRSpock]

Sure, and this isn't really a discussion about oil. This is a discussion about a companies right to degrade our environment. The oil is insignificant is this debate.

Can you elaborate?

[benny01]

Can you elaborate?

800,000 barrels is a big number that sounds like a lot. Its insignificant in relation to the amount of oil we use. If it was significant, the increased cost of petroleum products would dominate the discussion. The argument about the keystone pipeline doesnt have a thing to do with us needing the oil. So it's an argument about the right of oil companies to degrade our environment and the rights of other to protect their natural resources.

[SiteWolf]

the current issue is THIS pipeline in THIS time frame........NObody (even most oil companies) DISagrees that DEcreasing our oil consumption is the ideal goal............but we're not there yet, we're not even close...which is why, to me, it was short sighted for Biden to KILL the pipeline vs suspending it pending more discussion, redesign, relocation, etc