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  1. #16
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    Here's what PFF actually says about the Pats OL in their article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2...-line-rankings

    4. New England Patriots

    You donít expect rookie offensive linemen to come into the NFL and play the way Michael Onwenu did for the Patriots, especially rookie guards who were selected in the sixth round and forced into a starting job at tackle.

    That didnít stop Onwenu from slotting in as a top-10 right tackle in the NFL by PFF grade in addition to strong play at both left guard and right guard at various points in the season.

    The New England offense didnít have a whole lot going for it in 2020, but the offensive line is an area that they can count as a strength on that side of the football. Itís a group that could be dealt a big loss in the form of Joe Thuney, however. Thuney ended the season as the sixth-highest-graded left guard in the NFL and will be a free agent this offseason.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    That cant be the case, I'm pretty sure I remember reading that they had the highest blitz% in the league. Defenses weren't scared of the Pats receivers and the Pats ran like 60% of the time, so teams just blitzed the **** out of them. It might be that the Pats OL saw less overall blitzes because they had fewer pass attempts.
    What's interesting about that is some places I have seen define blitz as 6+ rushers, and some define it as non-downlinemen rushing.

    Take for example the 3-4 zone blitz. It's technically not a blitz on almost every singe play. Actually more often than not the 3-4 zone blitz brings only 4 rushers. But what made it a blitz was disguising who was bringing the pressure and who was not. So if the SS, OLB, DE, DE came, and the other OLB and NT drop into coverage, it's still technically a blitz.

    Basically, number of rushers is more reliable as to what's a 'blitz' than just outright saying 'blitz'

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    What's interesting about that is some places I have seen define blitz as 6+ rushers, and some define it as non-downlinemen rushing.

    Take for example the 3-4 zone blitz. It's technically not a blitz on almost every singe play. Actually more often than not the 3-4 zone blitz brings only 4 rushers. But what made it a blitz was disguising who was bringing the pressure and who was not. So if the SS, OLB, DE, DE came, and the other OLB and NT drop into coverage, it's still technically a blitz.

    Basically, number of rushers is more reliable as to what's a 'blitz' than just outright saying 'blitz'
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm

    PFR doesn't explain their definition, so I'm not sure where to find blitz numbers by number of rushers, but according to this Cam was blitzed an absurd 48% of his snaps (#1 by far, from what I can tell). Despite being dead last in attempts by starters he was: 12th in sacks, 17th in pressures, 10th in pressure%, 9th in total blitzes, and 1st in blitz%.

    This is why I'm saying the top 5 OL comments aren't really accurate without context. It must be strong individual performers carrying the weak performers who are causing issues or something. There were games in the back half where Cam was being hit before completing his drop back because the replacement LTs were awful; so maybe the OL was grading stellar from LG to RT, but if the LT is killing the play play before it even begins it doesn't really matter.

    Based on the advanced pressure stats, I have to imagine the run blocking is why they're so highly rated. Their run blocking was stellar even when they had injuries.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm

    PFR doesn't explain their definition, so I'm not sure where to find blitz numbers by number of rushers, but according to this Cam was blitzed an absurd 48% of his snaps (#1 by far, from what I can tell). Despite being dead last in attempts by starters he was: 12th in sacks, 17th in pressures, 10th in pressure%, 9th in total blitzes, and 1st in blitz%.

    This is why I'm saying the top 5 OL comments aren't really accurate without context. It must be strong individual performers carrying the weak performers who are causing issues or something. There were games in the back half where Cam was being hit before completing his drop back because the replacement LTs were awful; so maybe the OL was grading stellar from LG to RT, but if the LT is killing the play play before it even begins it doesn't really matter.

    Based on the advanced pressure stats, I have to imagine the run blocking is why they're so highly rated. Their run blocking was stellar even when they had injuries.
    What Context? Just do the MTM

    Rodgers is GOD and plays 1 vs 11 lol lol lol

    Cam is trash and is surrounded by all pros!!!!!!!!1111

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm

    PFR doesn't explain their definition, so I'm not sure where to find blitz numbers by number of rushers, but according to this Cam was blitzed an absurd 48% of his snaps (#1 by far, from what I can tell). Despite being dead last in attempts by starters he was: 12th in sacks, 17th in pressures, 10th in pressure%, 9th in total blitzes, and 1st in blitz%.

    This is why I'm saying the top 5 OL comments aren't really accurate without context. It must be strong individual performers carrying the weak performers who are causing issues or something. There were games in the back half where Cam was being hit before completing his drop back because the replacement LTs were awful; so maybe the OL was grading stellar from LG to RT, but if the LT is killing the play play before it even begins it doesn't really matter.

    Based on the advanced pressure stats, I have to imagine the run blocking is why they're so highly rated. Their run blocking was stellar even when they had injuries.
    I have a PFF plus membership. So if the defense brings 6, and each OL player takes a rusher, and the 6th guy gets to the QB is a free rusher/TE missed block/RB missed block it does not negatively effect the OL grade. NE had high pressure (extra rushers); low blitz (4 man rushers with 1+ not being a down-lineman).

    Like I said, PFF's grades are very subjective when it comes to OL and DB because they can attribute things to wrong players and boost player/positional grouping grades while knocking others without understanding what really happened.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunuu View Post
    What Context? Just do the MTM

    Rodgers is GOD and plays 1 vs 11 lol lol lol

    Cam is trash and is surrounded by all pros!!!!!!!!1111
    You forgot this:

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    You forgot this:
    And random all-caps.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    the adjusted interceptions say other wise.... gunslinger mentality again say others. Lets look at rodgers games where he lost this year and tell me besides the bucs game what performance is worse


    mahomes final 4 games he did this

    comp 62/70/55/54
    touchdowns 8
    interceptions 4
    rate-95/92/92-79

    ask me what their records were???????? go. I dare you... Yea 4-0........Wanna know what rodgers was in his losses? Yea exactly... keep trying though If mahomes is mahomes the back up comes in and wins the game or the defense wins the game or defenders drop interceptions galore because luck.... If rodgers inst the best QB in football packers lose everytime. One guy because of weapons can have an off day the other cant.
    Maybe Pat plays better than Aaron in those loses.

    Again, substituting one elite qb for another likely wouldn't change much.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunuu View Post
    What Context? Just do the MTM

    Rodgers is GOD and plays 1 vs 11 lol lol lol

    Cam is trash and is surrounded by all pros!!!!!!!!1111
    i can dig it

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm

    PFR doesn't explain their definition, so I'm not sure where to find blitz numbers by number of rushers, but according to this Cam was blitzed an absurd 48% of his snaps (#1 by far, from what I can tell). Despite being dead last in attempts by starters he was: 12th in sacks, 17th in pressures, 10th in pressure%, 9th in total blitzes, and 1st in blitz%.

    This is why I'm saying the top 5 OL comments aren't really accurate without context. It must be strong individual performers carrying the weak performers who are causing issues or something. There were games in the back half where Cam was being hit before completing his drop back because the replacement LTs were awful; so maybe the OL was grading stellar from LG to RT, but if the LT is killing the play play before it even begins it doesn't really matter.

    Based on the advanced pressure stats, I have to imagine the run blocking is why they're so highly rated. Their run blocking was stellar even when they had injuries.
    Generally people who do advanced stats for a living can handle adjusting the OL performance for the fact that Cam can't read a defense, so the D just sends pressure to make him throw into coverage. It's more like "hey if you had a QB back there who could make reads and go through a progression this would have been a great OL".
    Dak: 17,634 @ 66.0%, 7.7 per att, 106+24 TD, 40 INT+34 FMB, 97.3 Rate
    Wentz: 16,811 @ 62.7%, 6.7 per att, 113+8 TD, 50 INT+58 FMB, 89.2 Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Sticking to traditions:

    IF Wentz is a Philadelphia Eagle in 2021, he will be the starter. If not, bye bye PSD, I'll leave.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Generally people who do advanced stats for a living can handle adjusting the OL performance for the fact that Cam can't read a defense, so the D just sends pressure to make him throw into coverage. It's more like "hey if you had a QB back there who could make reads and go through a progression this would have been a great OL".
    Yeah, PFF doesn't do that.

    What are some other advanced stats for the 2020 Pats OL?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Generally people who do advanced stats for a living can handle adjusting the OL performance for the fact that Cam can't read a defense, so the D just sends pressure to make him throw into coverage. It's more like "hey if you had a QB back there who could make reads and go through a progression this would have been a great OL".
    Lazy Cam takes with nothing to back them up. Surely it has nothing to do with the trash weapons on top of the OL injuries leading to easy pressures with no fear of their WRs/TEs winning 1v1 matchups.

    Cams overall production wasn't far off from Bradys 2019 production despite having worse weapons and being new to the system.

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