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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    9,948

    Why not have the DH in both leagues?

    Are there any arguments that have nothing to due with "old school" baseball, or nostalgia of the game, that are against the DH?

    Myself? I hate watching the pitcher hit. I hate seeing a pitcher on cruise control getting removed because he's coming up to hit. I hate seeing the "free out" before the lineup is turned over.

    Any input?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    32,533
    Money. NL Owners don't want to have to pay millions for another position

  3. #3
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Money. NL Owners don't want to have to pay millions for another position
    Eh, they also don't want to pay millions for starters and have them get injured while hitting and running the bases.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2009
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    Management offered expanded playoffs to the players association in exchange for universal DH and were turned down. I guess the MLBPA has dug their heels in on the issue of the DH in the NL. It would be nice to see the playoffs expanded like they were in 2020, though. More teams and their fans would have something to shoot for.
    I would rather see an aging player that can hit .275 with 20+ homers and 70 RBI hit than the best hitting pitchers who are lucky to hit .240 with 5 homers and 15 RBI. The majority of the young pitchers haven't hit since high school and it really isn't fair to send them up with a bat in their hands to face pitches like they can throw.
    Last edited by catman; 01-25-2021 at 10:53 PM.

  5. #5
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    Nov 2006
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    Expanded playoffs doesn't give several teams a reason to spend which is why the players wouldn't want it.

  6. #6
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    Aug 2008
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    57,975
    It seems like common sense to have DH and expanded playoffs. Too bad MLB and MLBPA have such a bad relationship.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2008
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    12,594
    Expanded playoffs is a huge financial windfall to the owners. Players get a price of the point as well. But that's a huge win for the owners. DH doesn't really mean anything to the players. Helps a few guys get extra cash, but it's not a big benefit to the players really. Doesn't guarantee more money spent, just helps a few specific players who are mostly DH guys, but that money may just come at the expense of other players.

    I didn't see specifics of the deal. But it seemed very one sided. It was basically the owners giving the players something that benefits both sides for something that benefits the owners immensely.

    The DH shouldn't be a bargaining tool. Unless that DH is tied to a guarantee for more spend, there's no real benefit to the players. But the owners refuse to allow it without getting something in return.

    This sport is actively trying to turn away fans and it's so ridiculous. Every other sport has turned themselves into a year round or at least 10ish month event. The NFL and NBA opening day/week of free agency is a blast. Fans are refreshing Twitter all day and turn OK alerts from guys like Woj and Schefty and all those guys. In baseball, no free agents sign for 2 months, then the top guys slowly tricke in and sign on a random Tuesday in January. They have nothing laid out for the season. Fans don't even know if their team will have a DH. Don't know when spring training will start and 2/3rds of the teams have done nothing, most of whom may have actually gotten worse.

    Players and owners are going to squabble over how to cut up the pie without realizing that the pie is going rotten.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Bronx, NY
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    14,530
    I kinda liked how the postseason worked last year. The best teams still made it to the WS and the best team in baseball still won.

    As far as DH it's stupid not to have it on both leagues from the MLBPA point of view. Too many players are sitting home right now wondering why they haven't signed yet.

    And as much pitchers like to hold a bat and hit it's also better for their career to focus on their pitching and staying healthy. Let alone having drills on hitting, baserunning, taking signs when on base,...etc. They are no longer used to it with the DH being universal everywhere in Japan, Korea, the minors and College. Only the NL in the majors doesn't have the DH.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    57,975
    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Expanded playoffs is a huge financial windfall to the owners. Players get a price of the point as well. But that's a huge win for the owners. DH doesn't really mean anything to the players. Helps a few guys get extra cash, but it's not a big benefit to the players really. Doesn't guarantee more money spent, just helps a few specific players who are mostly DH guys, but that money may just come at the expense of other players.

    I didn't see specifics of the deal. But it seemed very one sided. It was basically the owners giving the players something that benefits both sides for something that benefits the owners immensely.

    The DH shouldn't be a bargaining tool. Unless that DH is tied to a guarantee for more spend, there's no real benefit to the players. But the owners refuse to allow it without getting something in return.

    This sport is actively trying to turn away fans and it's so ridiculous. Every other sport has turned themselves into a year round or at least 10ish month event. The NFL and NBA opening day/week of free agency is a blast. Fans are refreshing Twitter all day and turn OK alerts from guys like Woj and Schefty and all those guys. In baseball, no free agents sign for 2 months, then the top guys slowly tricke in and sign on a random Tuesday in January. They have nothing laid out for the season. Fans don't even know if their team will have a DH. Don't know when spring training will start and 2/3rds of the teams have done nothing, most of whom may have actually gotten worse.

    Players and owners are going to squabble over how to cut up the pie without realizing that the pie is going rotten.
    DH spot can help extend careers for pitchers and hitters. It benefits some guys more than others like Nelson Cruz but it definitely helps a lot. If no DH existed, Cruz would probably still have a spot as an OF somewhere but he's just taking time away from another guy on the field.

  10. #10
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    Dec 2005
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    Rogers Centre
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    24,727
    No DH for NL! I still want to giggle when watching pitchers hit!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Bethlehem
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    42,229
    DH needs to be universal


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  12. #12
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    Aug 2008
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    Why didnt they make it universal last CBA?

    I dont get how MLB can be so disorganized. They're messing with so many FAs and teams plans.

  13. #13
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    Feb 2009
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    238
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Why didnt they make it universal last CBA?

    I dont get how MLB can be so disorganized. They're messing with so many FAs and teams plans.
    This time it was the Player's Union that said no. The DH would benefit the players because it will create 15 extra positions. They have in issue with expanded playoffs. The owners get extra revenue when their team makes the playoffs but the players don't see any of it. The players don't want expanded playoffs for that reason.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    275
    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Are there any arguments that have nothing to due with "old school" baseball, or nostalgia of the game, that are against the DH?

    Myself? I hate watching the pitcher hit. I hate seeing a pitcher on cruise control getting removed because he's coming up to hit. I hate seeing the "free out" before the lineup is turned over.

    Any input?
    Boiling down the argument against having the DH as simply being tied to "old school" or "nostalgia" is a little bit off the mark in my opinion. Most of the arguments against the DH that I see/hear are related to the strategic components of managing your lineup and in-game moves around that spot in the lineup. It is a much less strategic consideration to simply remove a pitcher when he's showing signs of decline, without having to consider whether that player's spot in the lineup is coming up. You can't put in a pinch runner at your whim without pulling the player for which he is running, right? After all, this is the only position in sports where you have a stunt double come in to perform part of the job for a full time athlete on the field.

    Having said all of that, I think it is much worse to have a sport with different rules for the two different leagues, and that both leagues should play the game the same way, and be bound by the same considerations when constructing their rosters. It's just a better and more competitive game that way. I like the strategy, but I would rather both leagues play the same game, even at the expense of that component of the game that I enjoy. If it means the DH in both leagues is the most realistic scenario, which I believe it is, then I am all for it.

    I would hope money would also be a consideration. If you want to continue to put a quality product in front of fans, someone had better consider the financial components of the enterprise. This is not a non-profit game here. Everyone in the business expects to get paid after all. Employees and employers have a choice as to which careers and or business endeavors they undertake. If the terms of that relationship become unpalatable, walk away.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    57,975
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFanGuy View Post
    This time it was the Player's Union that said no. The DH would benefit the players because it will create 15 extra positions. They have in issue with expanded playoffs. The owners get extra revenue when their team makes the playoffs but the players don't see any of it. The players don't want expanded playoffs for that reason.
    Yea buy this should've bee addressed even before offseason began. They could have put something in place for 2021 season back when 2020 was being played.

    You shouldnt dangle something that has an effect in the upcoming season so you get what you want. If they are talking for 2022 season, sure. But their discussions that have an effect this season shouldnt be happening unless its needed (ie covid related).
    Last edited by Raps18-19 Champ; 01-28-2021 at 12:32 PM.

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