GW Bush vs. Trump

[ManRam]

Trump released a statement today talking about how takes pride in being the only recent president not to start a new war. I'm not terribly interested in that, but it got me thinking again about GW Bush, who for the bulk of Trump's Presidency I remained convinced probably was a more destructive president. So it got me thinking again. And what better time to talk legacies than doing so very prematurely on his last day in office.

But I'm sitting here comparing these two and I'm feeling like I still think Bush's presidency was ultimately more catastrophic for this country than Trump's will be. The last few weeks definitely have me more uncertain. And as I said, a lot of this still has to play out.

But the case against Bush is strong. For starters, I think Trump arose in large part to Bush era politics, nationalism, punditry and dog-whistling. I think the wars he started and his economic policies robbed my generation of economic opportunity. One of those wars was started off a lie. A half a million Iraqi civilians died because of that lie. An absolute nightmare of a foreign policy tenure as one could ever have. Worse yet, we've just accepted it. War is normal now. There isn't a viable anti-war movement in this country, and this country has a robust history of such movement. This death-spiral of inequality has so much to do with his economic policies. He opened up an off-shore torture camp and sanctioned torture! He unleashed a massive spy program. The DoD absolutely ballooned under him. He helped set the stage for the 2008 financial crisis. It just goes on and on. I'm already rambling.

8 years of Obama couldn't unwind much of any of that.


I don't need to point out how little I think of Donald Trump. I have no idea what comes of Trump's movement and his death cult. Maybe right-wing violence surges off the charts. Maybe he paves the way for a "competent Trump" like Hawley or some other ghoul, who unleashes Trumpism on us, but effectively. Maybe his deregulatory efforts doom us even more. I don't even know how the Covid nightmare ends! Or maybe the opposite?!?! Maybe right-wing politics takes a hit. Maybe Democratic leadership unleashes voter rights programs and kills gerrymandering and never lose an election again because Joe Biden did so much good and materially improved so many people's lives (yeah...). And so on. We don't know.

But I know George W Bush. And man, that guy sucked ****! And I hope no one lets 4 years of Trump distract you for the wretchedness of that administration. Something so miserable and toxic that most Republicans even get it.

So am I still crazy for thinking that when all is said and done, George W Bush's presidency might still stink most?

[benny01]

Trump declared war on every american institution. He did far more damage than Bush could dream of.

[Crovash]

In terms of actual policies and decisions, the Bush II administration was probably worse.

But benny has a point: Trump has done serious — maybe irreparable — damage to the fundamental institutions of American government (and his policies and decisions sucked too).

[Scoots]

I think Bush2 is easily the worst President of my lifetime (Nixon and Trump included). Trump is a blow hard divisive ***-hat but he was incredibly ineffective, Bush was fairly effective and pushed/passed some of the worst legislation in US history.

[nastynice]

The thing about Trump is that the disaster which occurred under him was so easily avoidable. The numbers should be one tenth of what they are but he blew such an obvious and clear decision that an inconvenience turned into a disaster. We lost on both lives and economy and the biggest reason for that was because significant population of our country refused to take minimal steps to help control the spread, thanks to the idiotic rambling of one donald dumb ***.

Bush was more of the norm. Kill a bunch of brown people for oil. That's normal american policy. Trumps was kill a bunch of Americans for ego. That's not normal american policy.

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[Sick Of It All]

Trump declared war on every american institution. He did far more damage than Bush could dream of.

Yeah I though Bush was the worst but Trump while not starting any wars he destroyed democracy and from now on we are going to live in a society where everything is fake news and you can’t concede if you lost an election.

Bush got us into typical bull ****, but Trump has gotten us into ******** this country has never seen before where a war at home could start because of his rhetoric.

[WES445]

Can't help myself, I told you he would be the worst president during our lifetime base on his personality and his history some three years ago. Nothing ever goes well when you have a crazy self-delusional person at the wheel.

[WES445]

The most powerful tool a president has is his ability to move and influence Americans. Obama singing amazing grace at a kid's funeral moved people. It may have quiet the fury of Blacks over cops misconduct at that time. FDR's "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" moved and strengthen the nation during the great depression and wartime.

Trump moved us against each other for his own political gains with no hand-rails or boundaries. As Benny said, he wasn't above destroying institutions, traditions, people, or the public good if it suited his purpose. One could guess this by his using money from his charity to buy a big arse painting of himself and numerous other things. Plus, he has no sense of shame like when he bragged about sexually assaulting women or sneaking in on teenage girls dressing during one of his beauty contests.

and his business ability is more like the producers in Mel Brooks' The Producers" than John Ford.

[Walter_White]

Trump is worse than Bush. He stoked an insurrection, did serious damage to our democracy, and attempted a self-coup. He was already worse than Bush before that, but now it is not a contest. And Bush was a really REALLY bad president.

[mike_noodles]

Bush looks like Einstein compared to Trump.

[Scoots]

The most powerful tool a president has is his ability to move and influence Americans. Obama singing amazing grace at a kid's funeral moved people. It may have quiet the fury of Blacks over cops misconduct at that time. FDR's "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" moved and strengthen the nation during the great depression and wartime.

Trump moved us against each other for his own political gains with no hand-rails or boundaries. As Benny said, he wasn't above destroying institutions, traditions, people, or the public good if it suited his purpose. One could guess this by his using money from his charity to buy a big arse painting of himself and numerous other things. Plus, he has no sense of shame like when he bragged about sexually assaulting women or sneaking in on teenage girls dressing during one of his beauty contests.

and his business ability is more like the producers in Mel Brooks' The Producers" than John Ford.

I agree. Unfortunately Trump was just another level of abrasive in playing the same game politicians have been playing and will continue to play. Fear sells and it's not going to change today.

And, while Trump was hugely divisive at least he didn't pass things like the Patriot act and create a whole new wasteful organization like DHS ... in fact, other than talking not stop crap Trump didn't really do much of anything at all.

[Crovash]

The most powerful tool a president has is his ability to move and influence Americans. Obama singing amazing grace at a kid's funeral moved people.

In this sense, Obama’s administration was the biggest disappointment.

We definitely knew what we were getting with Trump — an unprinicpled, narcissistic dolt. He just dialed it up once he had the power.

We probably knew what we were getting with Bush II — a good old, very limited frat boy, riding high on the family legacy.

We hoped for something more out of Obama. Didn’t get it — more likely our fault than his though.

[statquo]

I always said Bush was worse than Trump... until Trump self imploded in 2020. His Covid response was a complete disaster. And not even the response, but the political calculation that by downplaying it, not taking it serious, mocking safety precautions like wearing masks, and his infamous press conferences that somehow that would be good for him. He would be getting inaugurated for a second term right now if he took it seriously. Just for that, he's officially worse than Bush, and that's not even talking about the 400k deaths from Covid, the permanent damage done to democracy and inciting an insurrection... all of that in an election year! Sad!

[MRSpock]

It's honestly not close. And Bush was never the worst president. Not even close TBH.

People don't realize that America is full of 75% **** presidents and then a few that had to fix everything. Bushes biggest downfalls were what? Continuing the agenda started by Regan? Big economic hit. He was bad sure.

But was he as corrupt as Harding? Did he cause as much conflict as Pierce? Did he try to undermine Lincolns work like Johnson? Was he as dumb and useless as Buchanon? No. Not even close.

The Civil war in itself took a string of inept/dumb/corrupt/horrible politicians that made Bush look like a godsend. If these guys had twitter they'd probably be worse than Trump lol. I really can't see an argument for Bush being worse than any of these guys. Trump on the other hand...

[MRSpock]

I always said Bush was worse than Trump... until Trump self imploded in 2020. His Covid response was a complete disaster. And not even the response, but the political calculation that by downplaying it, not taking it serious, mocking safety precautions like wearing masks, and his infamous press conferences that somehow that would be good for him. He would be getting inaugurated for a second term right now if he took it seriously. Just for that, he's officially worse than Bush, and that's not even talking about the 400k deaths from Covid, the permanent damage done to democracy and inciting an insurrection... all of that in an election year! Sad!

It be a lot closer. But we still don't know the full effect of the divisiveness that he caused. We won't really know the full hit for another few decades probably.