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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I agree. Unfortunately Trump was just another level of abrasive in playing the same game politicians have been playing and will continue to play. Fear sells and it's not going to change today.

    And, while Trump was hugely divisive at least he didn't pass things like the Patriot act and create a whole new wasteful organization like DHS ... in fact, other than talking not stop crap Trump didn't really do much of anything at all.
    Because he had a **** load of useless idiots to work for him. Bush had smart evil people working for him.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I agree. Unfortunately Trump was just another level of abrasive in playing the same game politicians have been playing and will continue to play. Fear sells and it's not going to change today.

    And, while Trump was hugely divisive at least he didn't pass things like the Patriot act and create a whole new wasteful organization like DHS ... in fact, other than talking not stop crap Trump didn't really do much of anything at all.
    Bush was more of a figurehead for the neocons and establishment policies. Let's face it, he took his marching orders from his handlers. Every decision he made was guided by them, all who escaped the public wrath and when on continuing working in government. You just can't continue to talk about how dumb he is and then turn around to make him the mastermind of the Iraq invasion. The failure of his administration falls more on those neocons who pushed a more rabid imperialistic policy after the downfall of the Soviet Union. Yes, I know that happen during the Reagan years but that is where that policy was born. Being the last standing superpower embolden this attitude while 9/11 enable them. They were able to lie to the enrage American public about Iraq and get away with it...for a while. I think this when Americans started distrusting the typical establishment politicians. And gave an atypical candidate who seems to be talking about change a path into the oval office. After him, another atypical candidate who seems to be talking about change beats establishment politicians. The democrats didn't read the room before that election in 2016. Sure, Hillary being a woman would seem to be atypical but she was an establishment politician with a lot of baggage and the name Clinton.

    Trump's failures were all on him with the Republican party being dragged along because of his strength within the Republican base. Along as Mitch and the boys got their agenda passed, they put up with him. Plus he provides a fertile ground to push FOX and the republican's favorite rally cry, protecting white culture from being soil and weaken by multi-culturalism. Which led to armed protest, a kid shooting protesters, a large scale race riot in Charlotteville, and ended with the storming of the Capitol Building. Our two-party long history of enraging their bases against each other came home to roost with Trump as the maestro. Yes, Bush cause mega harm on the international scene but that is more correctable than Trump damaging our American unity, trust in government, and chasing some into the Twilight Zone which I don't think they are coming back. We went from Obama being born in Kenya to Satanist Democrat running kiddie sex rings in the basement of a neighborhood pizza shop. Trump fed and sped up our disunity for his personal gain. That is the kicker to my decisions. At least, dimwitted Bush thought he was pushing American policy not his own personal gain like Trump. Who else would disrespect our election tradition and encourage radicals to take back their country? Breeding this insurrection has never been done by a past president. Bush's actions? Crap, son that is the American way when it comes to foreign affairs. How many wars have we had that started over a lie?

    I can't fully condemn Bush for those reasons. He was the establishment sponsor president. We should have spent more time rooting out the neocons' advisors and their policies out of government instead of placing the full blame on Bush the dummy. He was more the fall guy than the mastermind. Trump was a loose cannon with no controls placed on him by his party, lacking in integrity or morals and be damn the constitution. I think those factors made him a more dangerous president and the worst. Where Bush's Americana was troubling and leery to the world. Trump made us a laughing stock. Being laughing stock damage our reputations more with our allies and let our enemies gain ground on us at the international level, especially China. You can't fear and respect someone if you are laughing at their antics.

    I really am more pissed with the system that spawns these guys more than them.
    Last edited by WES445; 01-21-2021 at 02:20 AM.
    A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.

    Martin Luther King.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    In this sense, Obamaís administration was the biggest disappointment.

    We definitely knew what we were getting with Trump ó an unprinicpled, narcissistic dolt. He just dialed it up once he had the power.

    We probably knew what we were getting with Bush II ó a good old, very limited frat boy, riding high on the family legacy.

    We hoped for something more out of Obama. Didnít get it ó more likely our fault than his though.
    Tell me about it. His wife is more popular in the black community than he is. That isn't saying he isn't, but that glow is gone. I use to warn some of my neighbors that he is a politician not some revolutionary figure. Unfortunately, he suffers from the Jackie Robinson dilemma. The first black in anything tends to tote the line and not rock the boat. It took a while for baseball to get a bro who would rock the boat as Curt Flood did.
    A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.

    Martin Luther King.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Tell me about it. His wife is more popular in the black community than he is. That isn't saying he isn't, but that glow is gone. I use to warn some of my neighbors that he is a politician not some revolutionary figure. Unfortunately, he suffers from the Jackie Robinson dilemma. The first black in anything tends to tote the line and not rock the boat. It took a while for baseball to get a bro who would rock the boat as Curt Flood did.
    Yea, I feel like obama's approach was to try and make change from within the system, and so I feel like he did as much as he could without, as you said, rocking the boat.

    I feel his short comings had more to do with how he felt he had to play politics.

    Never thought of it like that but maybe your analogy is true, maybe it just has to be that way, inch by inch.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  5. #35
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    I think history will show Obama was the generational, cultural change and Trump was the backlash. I think Obama got dealt a ****** hand out of the gate and tried playing ball within the establishment.

    George W was just an extension of his father. All the main players in his admin and some of the main policies were carry overs from his fathers term:

    Wolfowitz devised the Wolfowitz Doctrine as Under Secretary of Defense. Scooter Libby was his deputy. Cheney was Bush Srís Secretary of Defense. Colin Powell was his Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and National Security Advisor. Condoleezza Rice was a special advisor to the Joint Chiefs. Treasury Secretary Paul OíNeal was Bush Sr. first choice for Secretary of Defense over Cheney.

    It was just the old boys club with George W. They were the ones calling the shots and W was just there to put a compassionate face on it.

  6. #36
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    I'll try to summarize my simplistic timeline starting at Reagan because the 70s were such a disaster.

    1980-88 - Reagan - Competition with the Soviets for global dominance and the US gaining it's confidence back after the past decade, instills a culture of government being bad and the reason things sucked in the 70s, breaks open the free markets

    1988-92 - Bush Sr. - Collapse of the Soviet Union, the "New World Order" under US leadership, global alliances, free trade, consolidating the Soviet power vaccuum.

    1992-2000 - Clinton - A lot of the same, globalization speeds up, explosion of the tech sector, introduction of modern political partisanship.

    2000-2008 - W Bush - Extension of the previous two, 9/11 showed a profound negative effect of globalization, partisan politics becomes more cut throat, people drastically lose trust in government, the US becomes overextended and victim to bad policies and responses

    2008-2016 - Obama - picking up the pieces from the previous administrations, represents cultural and generational change in the country, partisan politics becomes unbearable, information technology blows up, federal government basically and literally stops working, citizens lose complete trust in government

    2016-2020 - Trump - people choose someone who has nothing to do with politics, essentially is the bull in the china shop, US cedes power in various regions and aspects of the world and global structure, information technology becomes a weapon and the explosion of intentional disinformation, vast portion of the population toys with the idea of autocracy, partisan politics becomes political violence, worst polarization since the Civil War.

    2020 - ? - Biden - Here's the road you're on now and it splits in two. On one, did Trump shake establishment politics and politicians enough to scare them into actually performing good governance? Or has everyone not had enough and do you continue down the path of extreme partisanship while the country becomes perpetual in its decline?
    Last edited by statquo; 01-21-2021 at 02:35 AM.

  7. #37
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    Damn you're being very generous with Bush there. I think to say that the USA got "Overextended" in Iraq is way too soft. I would more say that the USA started waving its dick around (especially Bush's first 4 years) and people looked and said "wait wtf are we doing over here anyway". We really just irritated the **** out of everyone from our allies to our own people. I get that you're doing very small summary's but the USA had been overextended a bit for years up to that point right?

    I wish I was a bit more optimistic. But a lot of GOP people seem to be going right back into the "OMG Trump was so great we're going to miss him so much". It makes me thing that the GOP plans to flip the switch to "WE CAN'T LET THESE MOTHER ****ERS TAKE OVER!!!" and go right back to what they were doing before.

    It's going to be at least a year for Biden to undue this ****in mess. Trump ****ed up big time, and that ****in rat Pompeo has been running around trying to **** **** up for the Biden Admin before they get there too. It's going to take a year just to undue this BS, deal with covid, foreign relations, start implementing a plan to deal with global warming, make sure this giant bubble we created doesn't burst and blow us all to ****in pieces, punish russia for their espionage over the next 4 years, implement a better strategy when dealing with A-symmetrical warfare, reduce cost in Obama Care. Oh and keep an eye on China as they prepare to invade taiwan and try to tone down this stupid *** trade war. Thankfully foreign policy is a strong suit of Bidens. But lets not sugar coat this... This is a ****ing disaster.

    PS Love that you talk foreign policy. Haven't gotten too involved but this is a spot the American public really needs to get more involved in. Instead of stating the obvious after the fact. "War is bad" is not good enough of a foreign policy conversation.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Because he had a **** load of useless idiots to work for him. Bush had smart evil people working for him.
    I'm also not sure there is anything more "wasteful" than the Space Force.
    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    I think history will show Obama was the generational, cultural change and Trump was the backlash.
    Yes, I think this too. We are trending in the right direction, we will keep getting better. BLM sparked world wide protests, it's not gonna stop until.its addressed.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    I'm also not sure there is anything more "wasteful" than the Space Force.


    Does seem like a lot of money for taxpayers to pay for a poorly applied Netflix show
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  11. #41
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    Thereís no post-slavery president worse than Trump.

    Heís barely ahead of Andrew Johnson, so comparing to W, even with the war mongering which isnít exclusive to him or his party, seems fruitless.

    I hope republicans can get back on track. The Trumper fringe and threat of forming a Patriot Party may end any hope.

  12. #42
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    If you want to go back in history, the worst single despicable act came with the so-called solution to the 1876 election.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Thereís no post-slavery president worse than Trump.

    Heís barely ahead of Andrew Johnson, so comparing to W, even with the war mongering which isnít exclusive to him or his party, seems fruitless.

    I hope republicans can get back on track. The Trumper fringe and threat of forming a Patriot Party may end any hope.
    Get back on track? What existing policies of the GOP didn't he just crank up from 10 to 11?
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  14. #44
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Get back on track? What existing policies of the GOP didn't he just crank up from 10 to 11?
    if pre-Trump was a 10, post-Trump was more like 25
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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