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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Yeah it’s a bit strange. End of the day I root for the New York on the front of the jersey. Not individual names on the back - though of course like us all I have guys who are my favorites as a fan. But ultimately the win-loss column is what I care about. If we’re at .500 end of this season with a few of the young guys leading the charge that’s a huge step in the right direction imo. So far I’m pretty happy with what we’re seeing compared to years past.
    It's Randle and the veterans who are predominantly "leading the charge" which is why these wins are close to meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

    We're not going to win a championship with Randle and Burks. It'll be either because RJ becomes a superstar alongside one or two other prospects fulfilling their potential or because we sucked enough to get a top tier talent in this draft.

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Really my only point was Thibs clearly has us moving in the right direction on the defensive end. And I don’t think Bullock is the glue holding it all together lol.
    Yea that would be money one leg Mitch holding it down

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    It's Randle and the veterans who are predominantly "leading the charge" which is why these wins are close to meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

    We're not going to win a championship with Randle and Burks. It'll be either because RJ becomes a superstar alongside one or two other prospects fulfilling their potential or because we sucked enough to get a top tier talent in this draft.
    This

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    It's Randle and the veterans who are predominantly "leading the charge" which is why these wins are close to meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

    We're not going to win a championship with Randle and Burks. It'll be either because RJ becomes a superstar alongside one or two other prospects fulfilling their potential or because we sucked enough to get a top tier talent in this draft.
    If you ignore defense, sure. Mitch looks like a much improved anchor this year, shouldn’t be ignored.

    RJ also hasn’t been bad overall, he had a shooting slump but other than that, looks improved. Knox in limited minutes looks better and then there’s Quickley...

    It’s not all Randle and Burks (who’s played 3 games?)

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    If you ignore defense, sure. Mitch looks like a much improved anchor this year, shouldn’t be ignored.

    RJ also hasn’t been bad overall, he had a shooting slump but other than that, looks improved. Knox in limited minutes looks better and then there’s Quickley...

    It’s not all Randle and Burks (who’s played 3 games?)
    I'm just throwing names. Randle is clearly the best player with heavy contributions from Bullock, Burks, Rivers, and Payton.

    RJ is marginally improved from last year so far (minor bumps in efficiency across the board) and Knox is still barely a rotation player. Quickley has been a nice surprise and Mitch is definitely more controlled and impactful but it's still not enough to say that the wins are predominantly coming from contributions from legitimate core pieces.

    Which leads to the obvious conclusion that this team still needs an elite prospect or two to put together a potential championship caliber team.

    Free agency is always an option but given the fact that we've struck out consistently for over a decade and the crappy *** Nets actually somehow were a more attractive destination, it wouldn't be prudent to bank on it.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    I'm just throwing names. Randle is clearly the best player with heavy contributions from Bullock, Burks, Rivers, and Payton.

    RJ is marginally improved from last year so far (minor bumps in efficiency across the board) and Knox is still barely a rotation player. Quickley has been a nice surprise and Mitch is definitely more controlled and impactful but it's still not enough to say that the wins are predominantly coming from contributions from legitimate core pieces.

    Which leads to the obvious conclusion that this team still needs an elite prospect or two to put together a potential championship caliber team.

    Free agency is always an option but given the fact that we've struck out consistently for over a decade and the crappy *** Nets actually somehow were a more attractive destination, it wouldn't be prudent to bank on it.
    Rivers hasn’t played well in like 5-6+ games, he should lose PT asap, hasn’t really helped at all. Payton is hit or miss, he’s pretty bad on defense and he can’t hit a shot past 15 feet out, which is why we keep seeing zones. Bullock is declining fast, Randle I agree has been a 180 this year, but honestly a lot of it does have to do with the improvement of the young guys plus Quickley. This isn’t the Larry Hughes Knicks we’re watching here.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    I'm just throwing names. Randle is clearly the best player with heavy contributions from Bullock, Burks, Rivers, and Payton.

    RJ is marginally improved from last year so far (minor bumps in efficiency across the board) and Knox is still barely a rotation player. Quickley has been a nice surprise and Mitch is definitely more controlled and impactful but it's still not enough to say that the wins are predominantly coming from contributions from legitimate core pieces.

    Which leads to the obvious conclusion that this team still needs an elite prospect or two to put together a potential championship caliber team.

    Free agency is always an option but given the fact that we've struck out consistently for over a decade and the crappy *** Nets actually somehow were a more attractive destination, it wouldn't be prudent to bank on it.
    Honest question - are you watching the games?

    RJ is leading the league in mins and our whole identity right now revolves around Mitch as Thibs young anchor. Burks played one game and Rivers and Bullock are largely invisible. IQ has spearheaded us to multiple victories. We’ve won almost every game RJ has played well. Knox looks better but we could use more out of him.

    This team isn’t capable of winning without heavy contributions from RJ and Mitch so if they are winning it’s because those 2 are a big part of it.

  8. #263
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    If you are saying Burks has been a heavy contributor I have a hard time believing you’ve watched a single game this year.

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Honest question - are you watching the games?

    RJ is leading the league in mins and our whole identity right now revolves around Mitch as Thibs young anchor. Burks played one game and Rivers and Bullock are largely invisible. IQ has spearheaded us to multiple victories. We’ve won almost every game RJ has played well. Knox looks better but we could use more out of him.

    This team isn’t capable of winning without heavy contributions from RJ and Mitch so if they are winning it’s because those 2 are a big part of it.
    I already mentioned RJ, Mitch, and Quickley so reiterating the fact that they're contributing is a moot point.

    Leading the league in minutes just means... you're playing more minutes than everyone else. RJ's efficiency is marginally improved and his points average is actually less per 36 compared to last year.

    There's a difference between RJ being a 2nd option and Quickley chipping in here and there compared to say Luka being the bonafide first option leading his team to the playoffs or the early Thunder winning games with all their core pieces as options A, B, and C.

    I don't envision Randle as a first option on a championship caliber team even in the most wildly optimistic scenarios which means that additional core pieces are needed. It's not that hard to see.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    I already mentioned RJ, Mitch, and Quickley so reiterating the fact that they're contributing is a moot point.

    Leading the league in minutes just means... you're playing more minutes than everyone else. RJ's efficiency is marginally improved and his points average is actually less per 36 compared to last year.

    There's a difference between RJ being a 2nd option and Quickley chipping in here and there compared to say Luka being the bonafide first option leading his team to the playoffs or the early Thunder winning games with all their core pieces as options A, B, and C.

    I don't envision Randle as a first option on a championship caliber team even in the most wildly optimistic scenarios which means that additional core pieces are needed. It's not that hard to see.
    Saying we don’t have an elite prospect is one thing and saying Burks, Bullock, and Rivers are leading the charge for this team behind Randle is another. Clearly RJ, Mitch are the most important guys behind Randle and IQ is making more of an impact towards our wins than all 4 veteran guards.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Saying we don’t have an elite prospect is one thing and saying Burks, Bullock, and Rivers are leading the charge for this team behind Randle is another. Clearly RJ, Mitch are the most important guys behind Randle and IQ is making more of an impact towards our wins than all 4 veteran guards.
    Thank you on both posts well done......

    Randle is 26 in his prime, in Mvp conversation, last year who would have thought, and why fans think he's not part of the future or part of a good future is head scratching?

    And for some here to be down on Rivers who has had a solid career who just a few games ago was their hero is just ridiculous. Rivers and you heard it here first, he will be back to himself, he will not be the guy who couldn't miss a shot and clutch as hell, but he will come back to be a solid player and contributor, I can almost promise you that, it's clear or at least it should be he hurt himself and his game is just off right now, this break will do world of good.


    sorry wishing a historical solid player like Rivers to get benched why? So someone else if and when he ever returns can get minutes? Yes it's pretty obvious.

    I'm thinking Randle will be here, he may be the reason we actually can land someone better. RJ, Mitch, IQ, and yes even Obi are clearly right now part of the future unless this amazing trade package happens, very unlikely.

    Knox can only blame himself for not getting more time, I'd wish truly someone would get in his head and just tell him all out when your on the court, play till you drop and beg to come out, at 20 in his situation how do you not play that way?

    We have some young vets and some nice young pieces to build around, and did we all forget to say hey we are 7-8 when we were predicted to finish last or second to last in almost every forecast?

    Don't know what the future holds and yes I've questioned Thibs myself but at the end of the day, none of us are there in practice and at the end of the day i'll trust his judgment on what he's doing and what is going on.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Thank you on both posts well done......

    Randle is 26 in his prime, in Mvp conversation, last year who would have thought, and why fans think he's not part of the future or part of a good future is head scratching?

    And for some here to be down on Rivers who has had a solid career who just a few games ago was their hero is just ridiculous. Rivers and you heard it here first, he will be back to himself, he will not be the guy who couldn't miss a shot and clutch as hell, but he will come back to be a solid player and contributor, I can almost promise you that, it's clear or at least it should be he hurt himself and his game is just off right now, this break will do world of good.


    sorry wishing a historical solid player like Rivers to get benched why? So someone else if and when he ever returns can get minutes? Yes it's pretty obvious.

    I'm thinking Randle will be here, he may be the reason we actually can land someone better. RJ, Mitch, IQ, and yes even Obi are clearly right now part of the future unless this amazing trade package happens, very unlikely.

    Knox can only blame himself for not getting more time, I'd wish truly someone would get in his head and just tell him all out when your on the court, play till you drop and beg to come out, at 20 in his situation how do you not play that way?

    We have some young vets and some nice young pieces to build around, and did we all forget to say hey we are 7-8 when we were predicted to finish last or second to last in almost every forecast?

    Don't know what the future holds and yes I've questioned Thibs myself but at the end of the day, none of us are there in practice and at the end of the day i'll trust his judgment on what he's doing and what is going on.
    Lol dude you’re more obsessed with Frank than I am lol. Rivers has been bad. I never watched him really before this season but when he signed here most Rockets fans online were saying good riddance and he’s a bum, sorry but that’s what their reaction was. He signed for 3 mil a year with team options past this year.

    I know you love fringe NBA players like Trey Burke and now Rivers but it is what it is. He’s been playing like absolute trash the past 5+ games. Sorry if you don’t like that reality.

  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Lol dude you’re more obsessed with Frank than I am lol. Rivers has been bad. I never watched him really before this season but when he signed here most Rockets fans online were saying good riddance and he’s a bum, sorry but that’s what their reaction was. He signed for 3 mil a year with team options past this year.

    I know you love fringe NBA players like Trey Burke and now Rivers but it is what it is. He’s been playing like absolute trash the past 5+ games. Sorry if you don’t like that reality.
    Actually Trey has been playing to good lol, he helped Dallas get some wins, I'm a knick fan don' like that lol....

    I was never obsessed with Trey I simply state between him, Mudiay and frank he was the best pg we had, and a few of you went off on me, well low and behold he's probably the only one getting PG minutes right now.

    Forget that, if you haven't seen rivers then you really can't say much and if your judging a players few games vs his career, I'm not sure what to say to that, I've seen superstars go into a funk. He is no superstar but he is a steady good reserve player, how is that in love with fringe players?

    And no I'm not more obsessed with Frank I don't have him in each and every rotation, true?

    I'll say it again you will change your tune with rivers once he gets back to himself, you know his career self. he is an average 3 point shooter, slightly above average defender and gives 100% each time he steps on the court.

    FYI with his bad games, he is still shooting .392 from three, that's actually impressive how badly he's played and I still say he got hurt a few games back, his shot just don't look like his shot right now.

    And it's last 4 games if you want to count the game he was obviously hurt yet still shot 2-5 from three had 6 boards and 4 assists and a +5 when we loss. so technically its 3 bad games in row, you can hate him but why?


    That my friend is reality, not judging a guy

  14. #269
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    Marc Berman
    @NYPost_Berman
    Though they don’t play until Thursday night, Knicks flew today for San Francisco to get acclimated to Pacific Time Zone. Will practice tomorrow in Frisco.

  15. #270
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    Elfrid Payton clinging to Knicks starting spot with stellar defense
    By Marc BermanJanuary 19, 2021 | 6:55pm | Updated



    Like a cat’s nine lives, Elfrid Payton has survived all point-guard comers to hold onto the starting job for a second straight season — even turning back surging rookie Immanuel Quickley.

    Dennis Smith Jr. and Frank Ntilikina have proved no competition — each suffering early-season injuries to eliminate them as contenders. Each will be trade bait at the March 25 deal deadline.

    Austin Rivers overcame a groin injury that put him out of the preseason and the season’s first four games. After a hot start, Rivers has leveled off.

    Quickley keeps on charging, but Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau said after Sunday’s victory in Boston that Payton will remain the starter over the rookie because of one thing: defense.

    Social media devotees have clamored Quickley should start ahead of Payton, but the 26-year-old point guard shut them up with his solid-as-a-rock performance on MLK Day — 12 points, four assists, two steals and plus-20 in a 91-84 win over the Magic. He punctuated the outing with a rousing fourth-quarter slam dunk on a sneaky drive down the lane.


    “I don’t pay attention to none of y’all,’’ Payton said after Monday’s win. “No disrespect, I’m just worried about what’s going on with this team. And rooting for guys. Whether it’s Quick’s night, whether it’s Julius [Randle’s] night, whether it’s RJ [Barrett’s] night, whether it’s Austin’s night. Whoever is rolling and giving us the best chance to win, that’s who we should have on the floor.’’

    On Monday, Quickley was stirring in the first half with 11 points in 11 minutes but petered out after intermission. Thibodeau rode Payton for the final eight minutes.

    A 2014 lottery pick by Orlando, Payton admitted afterward he “always like beating them.’’ It certainly looked that way with his rare driving slam, as he thoroughly outplayed overmatched rookie Cole Anthony.

    “Just trying to get downhill, trying to get in the paint,’’ Payton said. “When I get downhill, usually it’s good things that happen. Whether it’s kicking out, getting the lob or finishing it myself.’’

    Former Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy, who has watched all the Knicks games and thinks a lot like Thibodeau, said Payton’s earned it — as much as he loves Quickley.


    “Payton takes a lot of criticism,’’ Van Gundy told The Post. “He’s never going to be a good offensive talent in this league but he sets a tremendous tone defensively.’’

    On Sunday, Thibodeau explained specifically that defense has kept Payton the starter. Despite his craftiness, Quickley has ways to go in the Department of Defense.

    “I love both guys — they’re different and bring different things to the team,’’ Thibodeau said Sunday. “Elfrid, when you look at his defense and size, a lot of these guards, particularly point guards in the NBA today, they’re a load to deal with. Elfrid has a good understanding how to defend them.”


    As for Smith and Ntilikina, 2017 lottery picks, they’ve become afterthoughts. Smith injured his quad after the home opener. The former North Carolina State guard returned Jan. 10 and has been spotted in two garbage-time cameos. Ntilikina has been out three weeks with a sprained right knee. There’s no timetable for his return.

    “Thank God I feel healthy,’’ said Payton, who has played all 15 games — averaging 13.1 points, 4.1 assists and 4.1 rebounds. “I feel like that has a lot to do with it as well. But it’s definitely been different. Guys came back ready to play this year.’’

    Swingman Alec Burks (sprained ankle) is trending toward a return when the Knicks (7-8) embark on a four-game western trip starting Thursday vs. Golden State. Burks resuscitated his career with the Warriors when he averaged 16 points and shot 37.5 percent from 3-point range last season. Golden State traded him at the deadline to be a 76ers’ rental. The Knicks top free-agent signee has been out since the third game. He shot 66.7 percent (10 of 15) from the 3-point stripe before getting hurt.

    “He’s getting closer and closer,’’ Thibodeau said. “So each day he gets evaluated. He’s moving really well right now so hopefully it’ll be soon.’’

    After the Knicks finish their journey to Golden State-Sacramento-Portland-Utah next week, they’ll have played 12 of their first 19 contests on the road amid the pandemic.

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