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  1. #2671
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    2021 NFCE Offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Itís crazy how teams like WFT and the Bears and the Jets can go so long without finding a QB and then you have teams like the Cowboys who twice have had their starting franchise QBís fall in their laps.


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    Those teams seem to force it with their picks. One thing I think the cowboys seem to get right is their draft strategy always seems to be best player available (though I will say this year felt a little different for some reasons). Thatís how it should be for all teams, take BPA and donít target specific positions. Some teams go into drafts and say ďok, we are gonna take a QB. Whoís available?Ē Like they donít even know yet what QBs are in the draft but already have their minds made up. Dwayne Haskins kinda felt like that kinda pick, ďwell, Haskins is still on the board and we need a QB so letís take himĒÖ Thatís an easy way to draft a bust.

  2. #2672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Itís crazy how teams like WFT and the Bears and the Jets can go so long without finding a QB and then you have teams like the Cowboys who twice have had their starting franchise QBís fall in their laps.


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    I already went through this. top 10 defenses are more common than top 10 QBs

    peyton Manning won a superbowl while being a bottom 5 starter, eli won 2 while absolutely not being top 10, dilfer, foles, flacco, and there were some others

    like 8 or 9 superbowls last 30 years were won without top 10 QBs

    so I found a chart from 5 years that is simply SB winners and their offensive rank and defensive rank, so it's like 96-16 or something like that

    in those 20 years, 7 top 5 defenses won the superbowl, while 7 top 5 offenses won it.

    4 of those top 5 defenses wins had offenses outside of the top 20, while only 2 of those offenses won with a defense ranked 20 or lower

    speaking of which, teams winning with 20th ranked or worst offenses happened 4 times, and only twice for teams winning with defenses ranked 20 or lower

    the #1 defense won 5 times, while the #1 offense won only 2 times

    so it seems a general trend that better offenses lead to wins more than better offenses.

    and this isn't even just QB period we're talking, we're talking offenses overall

    if that shows in that 20 year gap that defense was more important than offense, then we can definitely assume that defense is quite a bit more important than a QB
    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    It's different now than it was.

    When he won the second one, Giants fans are here we're outside of their minds.
    That quote always cracks me up.

  3. #2673
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    Quote Originally Posted by QQQ View Post
    Itís kinda a low bar to be honest, I can see him as a top 20 QB. Thing is fitz can get really hot at times but then disappear for like 3-4 games at a time. Luckily Washingtonís defense can hold teams to low scoring games.
    Has Fitz ever been a top 20 QB for an entire season? I agree he will have his crazy good game here and there but he will have twice as many bad games where youíre wondering what the hell is he doing out there. Heís a career journeyman for a reason.


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  4. #2674
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    Quote Originally Posted by QQQ View Post
    LlullzÖ jerry cracks me up man
    Did you watch the video? Itís actually pretty funny.


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  5. #2675
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    Quote Originally Posted by basch152 View Post
    I already went through this. top 10 defenses are more common than top 10 QBs

    peyton Manning won a superbowl while being a bottom 5 starter, eli won 2 while absolutely not being top 10, dilfer, foles, flacco, and there were some others

    like 8 or 9 superbowls last 30 years were won without top 10 QBs

    so I found a chart from 5 years that is simply SB winners and their offensive rank and defensive rank, so it's like 96-16 or something like that

    in those 20 years, 7 top 5 defenses won the superbowl, while 7 top 5 offenses won it.

    4 of those top 5 defenses wins had offenses outside of the top 20, while only 2 of those offenses won with a defense ranked 20 or lower

    speaking of which, teams winning with 20th ranked or worst offenses happened 4 times, and only twice for teams winning with defenses ranked 20 or lower

    the #1 defense won 5 times, while the #1 offense won only 2 times

    so it seems a general trend that better offenses lead to wins more than better offenses.

    and this isn't even just QB period we're talking, we're talking offenses overall

    if that shows in that 20 year gap that defense was more important than offense, then we can definitely assume that defense is quite a bit more important than a QB
    No, sorry buddy that still doesnít equate to fewer top 10 QBís than fewer top 10 defenses. First I disagree with you about Eli. For the second SB he was definitely sparing it up that season however he actually played well during that first SB run. Also Flacco was a top 10 QB that year Baltimore won the SB.

    But even if you were right in all those QBís thatís only 6 SBís where a top 10 QB wasnít in the SB. That leaves 24 other times where a top 10 QB won the SB. Last I checked 24 is a bigger number than 6.


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  6. #2676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    No, sorry buddy that still doesnít equate to fewer top 10 QBís than fewer top 10 defenses. First I disagree with you about Eli. For the second SB he was definitely sparing it up that season however he actually played well during that first SB run. Also Flacco was a top 10 QB that year Baltimore won the SB.

    But even if you were right in all those QBís thatís only 6 SBís where a top 10 QB wasnít in the SB. That leaves 24 other times where a top 10 QB won the SB. Last I checked 24 is a bigger number than 6.


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    I donít know why people keep overlooking the cap hit.

    4 times in the last like 20+ SBs did a QB in the top 10 cap hit win a SB. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. You know, 2 of the best QBs of all time.

    Do we think Dak whoís going to be top 5 (at least) cap hit for his contract is a guy you want to build around?

    If Dak was the best QB in the game, Iíd feel better about building around him with his cap hit. Heís not. History shows that QBs with top 10 cap hits rarely win SBs (unless youíre a top 5 QB of all time)

    Iím not admitting that Dak is on his way to be a top 10 QB of all time so Iím not building around that cap hit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  7. #2677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    No, sorry buddy that still doesnít equate to fewer top 10 QBís than fewer top 10 defenses. First I disagree with you about Eli. For the second SB he was definitely sparing it up that season however he actually played well during that first SB run. Also Flacco was a top 10 QB that year Baltimore won the SB.

    But even if you were right in all those QBís thatís only 6 SBís where a top 10 QB wasnít in the SB. That leaves 24 other times where a top 10 QB won the SB. Last I checked 24 is a bigger number than 6.


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    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/syndicat...ecade.amp.html
    Itís only getting worse too. The future is all about putting the ball more in the QBs hands. More plays and more passes. Hell even more QB rushes too. Game managers are becoming extinct. There use to be a time when all you asked a QB to do was not to win the game but just donít lose it. Let the running game and defense carry us.
    Those days are almost gone and now outliers.
    The NFL as pushed for more offense. Your basically not allowed to touch a WR or the QB anymore.
    There is a reason why GMs are offering three first rounders for older high priced QBs. They understand this.

  8. #2678
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I donít know why people keep overlooking the cap hit.

    4 times in the last like 20+ SBs did a QB in the top 10 cap hit win a SB. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. You know, 2 of the best QBs of all time.

    Do we think Dak whoís going to be top 5 (at least) cap hit for his contract is a guy you want to build around?

    If Dak was the best QB in the game, Iíd feel better about building around him with his cap hit. Heís not. History shows that QBs with top 10 cap hits rarely win SBs (unless youíre a top 5 QB of all time)

    Iím not admitting that Dak is on his way to be a top 10 QB of all time so Iím not building around that cap hit.
    You never answered who was more valuable going forward. Lamb or Allen?

  9. #2679
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    Quote Originally Posted by QQQ View Post
    Those teams seem to force it with their picks. One thing I think the cowboys seem to get right is their draft strategy always seems to be best player available (though I will say this year felt a little different for some reasons). Thatís how it should be for all teams, take BPA and donít target specific positions. Some teams go into drafts and say ďok, we are gonna take a QB. Whoís available?Ē Like they donít even know yet what QBs are in the draft but already have their minds made up. Dwayne Haskins kinda felt like that kinda pick, ďwell, Haskins is still on the board and we need a QB so letís take himĒÖ Thatís an easy way to draft a bust.
    Shanahan wanted to draft Tannehill at pick 6 2012, Snyder wanted Griffin. Shanahan before the draft said Cousins will be better than Griffin, Snyder was like whatever and traded 2 additional 1sts and a 2nd to swap picks and get Griffin that year and Shanahan still convinced Snyder to get Cousins later on in that draft.
    Now given RG3's career looked promising after his rookie year but he got hurt because he couldnt learn to slide

    Gruden basically told Snyder Haskins will suck, and Snyder drafted him anyways.

    When Snyder sees a QB he loves it doesnt matter what the coaching staff, scouts or whoever says... he will get him... or at least he has in the past. Hopefully he will listen to this new coaching staff
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  10. #2680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Has Fitz ever been a top 20 QB for an entire season? I agree he will have his crazy good game here and there but he will have twice as many bad games where youíre wondering what the hell is he doing out there. Heís a career journeyman for a reason.


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    pretty much every year hes played at least 13 games hes been top 20 in most stats that would influence a QBs ranking... 20th best QB play would be a significant upgrade from 31st or 32nd best QB play from last year.
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  11. #2681
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I donít know why people keep overlooking the cap hit.

    4 times in the last like 20+ SBs did a QB in the top 10 cap hit win a SB. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. You know, 2 of the best QBs of all time.

    Do we think Dak whoís going to be top 5 (at least) cap hit for his contract is a guy you want to build around?

    If Dak was the best QB in the game, Iíd feel better about building around him with his cap hit. Heís not. History shows that QBs with top 10 cap hits rarely win SBs (unless youíre a top 5 QB of all time)

    Iím not admitting that Dak is on his way to be a top 10 QB of all time so Iím not building around that cap hit.
    Wait, so weíre moving the goal posts now huh?

    We were talking about skill not cap hit.


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  12. #2682
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I could agree with a QB being the most important ingredient, I just donít think Dak fits that mold.

    I thought I did answer but I guess now (I meant to). I donít think they are in a good position considering whatís on their roster but they have the ability to build the defense to elite level. They do need to at least try for a QB though. Just because Iíd pick the WFT group to build around doesnít mean I think WFT is actually going to succeed at it lol. Iím surprised they didnít try this draft.
    The rumor is that Rivera really likes Sam Howell and didnt want to trade away any assets that might prevent drafting him in 2022
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  13. #2683
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    2021 NFCE Offseason thread

    The last 30 SB winning QBís starting with the most recent.

    Tom Brady (top 10)
    Patrick Mahomes (top 10)
    Tom Brady (top 10)
    Nick Foles
    Tom Brady (top 10)
    Peyton Manning
    Tom Brady (top 10)
    Russell Wilson (top 10)
    Joe Flacco (top 10)
    Eli Manning
    Aaron Rodgers (top 10)
    Drew Brees (top 10)
    Ben Roethlisberger (top 10)
    Eli Manning (top 10)
    Peyton Manning (top 10)
    Ben Roethlisberger (top 10)
    Tom Brady (top 10)
    Tom Brady (top 10)
    Brad Johnson
    Tom Brady (top 10)
    Trent Dilfer
    Kurt Warner (top 10)
    John Elway (top 10)
    John Elway (top 10)
    Brett Favre (top 10)
    Troy Aikman (top 10)
    Steve Young (top 10)
    Troy Aikman (top 10)
    Troy Aikman (top 10)
    Mark Rypien

    Those are the last 30 SB winning QBís. And if you want to give credit for Wentz getting the Eagles to the playoffs then that would be another top 10 QB since he was the MVP favorite before he got hurt.

    Of all those teams which ones had top 10 defenses? My bet is it is less than the number of top 10 QBís.


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  14. #2684
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    You never answered who was more valuable going forward. Lamb or Allen?
    Yes I did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  15. #2685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Wait, so weíre moving the goal posts now huh?

    We were talking about skill not cap hit.


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    You posted the question regarding taking WFTs 3 or DALs 3.

    I stated, from the beginning, that i would take the core of Young and Allen to build around because of Daks cap hit.

    Itís not my fault you havenít been following along.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

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