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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by last stand View Post
    I think desean was def a #1 in his prime. Maclin was more a high end #2 but a very high end #2

    Eagles arenít good at drafting the position in fact theyíre pretty bad at it. Luckily itís one of the least important positions on a football team. You need guys who can get open and catch the ball you donít need Julio Jones. The eagles only have I believe 1 NFC championship appearance out of their 5 where they had an elite WR and he didnít play if memory serves. And then they had another with a #1 in 2008
    That's one way of looking at it. Another is that the Andy Reid led Eagles only made the SB with TO. (And probably would have won if it the other side wasn't cheating.)

    I'd also argue that Jeffery was a #1 WR when Foles was throwing to him. Wentz didn't really have the inclination to throw 50-50 balls, which is Alshon's biggest strength. In the SB victory he was beating Eric Rowe like a drum, which forced Belichick to cover him 1-on-1 with Gilmore, which in turned opened up the other receivers.

    Quote Originally Posted by last stand View Post
    I donít buy the importance of the position. We won a Super Bowl with guys who got open and caught the ball. So have the patriots for years.

    I think itís the most overrated position in football. I actually believe thereís more precedent in recent years for elite TEs being a bigger factor

    Ertz, little, kelce, gronk
    I wouldn't say it's a top important position either, but I also think it's a position that matters.

    The problem with using SB wins as an argument against #1 WRs is that the Patriots have been in every other SB for 20 years, and for the last 10 years they've built their offense in a very particular way.

    Oh, and they've had the GOAT TE making plenty of plays as a *receiver*.

    The Eagles right now are in a situation where Reagor would benefit a lot from having a quality receiver next to him. If he's the WR1 it's going to stifle the entire offense.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by last stand View Post
    3 things

    You were saying it first

    Caplan and mosher also said that this started in 2016 after chip, lurie took a more active role and because 2017 resulted in a Super Bowl he was validated. Thatís their read on the situation

    Everyoneís all fire howie. I see the reasoning. My concern is that lurie will become GM if they fire howie lol
    The "give Chip all the power for one year" move was weird as hell. I wonder in an alternative universe when the 2015 Eagles made the playoffs, if Howie's office is still in the broom closet. The move looks smart in hindsight but let's say Sturgis makes the 33-yard FG in week 4 against the Redskins, and everything could be a lot different now.

    BTW, Brandon Graham was a free agent in 2015.

    Howie certainly has his faults, but a lot of the stuff that is currently blamed on him are Lurie's decisions. Lurie paid Wentz. Lurie fired Doug. Lurie traded Wentz. He probably had to be convinced why drafting Hurts made sense and that might be a main factor why Howie is still here.
    Last edited by QB_Eagles; 02-24-2021 at 11:30 AM.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    Well, then say 9 fumbles in 15 games. In his 4 starts Hurts had 6 fumbles.

    By the way, of the 3 fumbles in the "non-starts", 2 were bad snaps, and 1 of those resulted in a 7-yard gain. The other one was on a rushing attempt. It really doesn't make sense to compare these fumbles that happened when he was a gadget player to the fumbles that happened when he was the starting QB.
    6 fumbles in 4 starts isnít helping your point.

    Regardless, tome to see if the kid has it.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by last stand View Post
    I think desean was def a #1 in his prime. Maclin was more a high end #2 but a very high end #2

    Eagles arenít good at drafting the position in fact theyíre pretty bad at it. Luckily itís one of the least important positions on a football team. You need guys who can get open and catch the ball you donít need Julio Jones. The eagles only have I believe 1 NFC championship appearance out of their 5 where they had an elite WR and he didnít play if memory serves. And then they had another with a #1 in 2008

    I donít buy the importance of the position. We won a Super Bowl with guys who got open and caught the ball. So have the patriots for years.

    I think itís the most overrated position in football. I actually believe thereís more precedent in recent years for elite TEs being a bigger factor

    Ertz, little, kelce, gronk
    Maclin was the better receiver.

    Desean was the better playmaker.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    That's one way of looking at it. Another is that the Andy Reid led Eagles only made the SB with TO. (And probably would have won if it the other side wasn't cheating.)

    I'd also argue that Jeffery was a #1 WR when Foles was throwing to him. Wentz didn't really have the inclination to throw 50-50 balls, which is Alshon's biggest strength. In the SB victory he was beating Eric Rowe like a drum, which forced Belichick to cover him 1-on-1 with Gilmore, which in turned opened up the other receivers.


    I wouldn't say it's a top important position either, but I also think it's a position that matters.

    The problem with using SB wins as an argument against #1 WRs is that the Patriots have been in every other SB for 20 years, and for the last 10 years they've built their offense in a very particular way.

    Oh, and they've had the GOAT TE making plenty of plays as a *receiver*.

    The Eagles right now are in a situation where Reagor would benefit a lot from having a quality receiver next to him. If he's the WR1 it's going to stifle the entire offense.
    Thereís a stat .. I forget the specifics I think I posted it when Dallas was trying to sign cooper but no team has one a SB while dedicating a certain percentage of the salary cap to a WR . I think it might have been around 10 percent . So itís a tough position because it typically takes a couple years for a WR to reach his ceiling and by then itís time to pay up .

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    That's one way of looking at it. Another is that the Andy Reid led Eagles only made the SB with TO. (And probably would have won if it the other side wasn't cheating.)

    I'd also argue that Jeffery was a #1 WR when Foles was throwing to him. Wentz didn't really have the inclination to throw 50-50 balls, which is Alshon's biggest strength. In the SB victory he was beating Eric Rowe like a drum, which forced Belichick to cover him 1-on-1 with Gilmore, which in turned opened up the other receivers.


    I wouldn't say it's a top important position either, but I also think it's a position that matters.

    The problem with using SB wins as an argument against #1 WRs is that the Patriots have been in every other SB for 20 years, and for the last 10 years they've built their offense in a very particular way.

    Oh, and they've had the GOAT TE making plenty of plays as a *receiver*.

    The Eagles right now are in a situation where Reagor would benefit a lot from having a quality receiver next to him. If he's the WR1 it's going to stifle the entire offense.
    TO helped a ton during the season, helped get home field advantage but he was like Carson in a sense. Got hurt. Didnít have him in the playoffs

    My thing is a talented WR does help. I think itís overrated in the sense that everyone focuses on it and it gets overpaid comparatively to effect on the field

    Also itís kinda when said talented WR needs to be paid that cap space becomes an issue in terms of allocating it to the right guys. Alshon being a #1 is true but he was a low end #1 so he was paid like a low end 1.

    I just personally find QB, OL, and a high end TE are more valuable. I view WR and RB kinda in the same place on offense.

    Itís kinda like LB as well. Positions you donít want to neglect but also not positions that are extremely vital to have an elite guy at

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Maclin was the better receiver.

    Desean was the better playmaker.
    Iíd agree

    But maclins impact on the game/offense wasnít on the same level as desean. Deseans deep speed had an effect in every game heís played healthy.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by last stand View Post
    Iíd agree

    But maclins impact on the game/offense wasnít on the same level as desean. Deseans deep speed had an effect in every game heís played healthy.
    So like 5 games in the last 5 years?

    I kid, but Jesus if he could have only stayed on the field. That first game vs Washington I had hopes of a McNabb/Owens type of WR relationship with Wentz.

    Oh well.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    So like 5 games in the last 5 years?

    I kid, but Jesus if he could have only stayed on the field. That first game vs Washington I had hopes of a McNabb/Owens type of WR relationship with Wentz.

    Oh well.
    Well I was talking more back then. I do think things really started to go south when he got hurt against Atlanta.

    I do think things are different in 2019 if desean stays healthy

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by surf and turf View Post
    Thereís a stat .. I forget the specifics I think I posted it when Dallas was trying to sign cooper but no team has one a SB while dedicating a certain percentage of the salary cap to a WR . I think it might have been around 10 percent . So itís a tough position because it typically takes a couple years for a WR to reach his ceiling and by then itís time to pay up .
    I know this is a hypothetical but IF Atlanta didnít have the most epic collapse, there is no reason they wouldnít have won. Jones was over 10% at the time too.

    I still think you look at #1 WR, legit ones, and there are teams getting to championship games at least yearly with one.

    To your point though, it just goes to show more of having skill players on rookie deals is where to go.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Think about it... why is the WR position so valuable?

    They can just flat out make plays for you if theyíre great. They dictate coverage to free up the box and make reads easier on the QB.

    Pitts can do both of those things for you. And with an added boost on the second part. His physical profile makes him a tough matchup for CBs (too small) and LBs (too slow/stiff). You can try to match it up with a safety, but most of them are still too slow and too small to match up. Itís very difficult for a defense to match up with a dynamic tight end and not tip their hand on coverage strategy. That makes the read easier for your QB.

    And I know PHI has Goedart. And believe me, Iím one who think the 2 TE offense got way overhyped after Gronk/Hernandez because people ignored the uniqueness of Hernandez to make that so great. 2 TEs doesnít work unless they challenge different parts of the field. You need one of them to be a true ďmoveĒ TE but most people try to force it and yeah while the guy may be versatile enough, he doesnít REALLY pose the elite threat to shift defenses. Pitts is a rare breed of player who would make that strategy effective the way Hernandez did. And then some IMO because he just has an even bigger frame.
    2 TEís and no WRís equals an unbalanced roster and therefore much easier to defend.


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  12. #282
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    I honestly hope the Eagles do draft a TE and ignore the OL and defense. As a Cowboys fan I would LOVE that!


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  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    I honestly hope the Eagles do draft a TE and ignore the OL and defense. As a Cowboys fan I would LOVE that!


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    Our OL is fine

    Defense no but the OL is a strength if healthy

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    6 fumbles in 4 starts isnít helping your point.

    Regardless, tome to see if the kid has it.
    If he still fumbles at that rate in year 5, it would be a problem.

  15. #285
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    Alright, so if we're not arguing Dak vs Wentz anymore, what are we arguing now?

    #24ever

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