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  1. #46
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    Jun 2010
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    Player A 2020 fWAR in 57 games-1.9
    Player B 2020 fWAR in 50 games-1.8

  2. #47
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILMindState View Post
    Player A 2020 fWAR in 57 games-1.9
    Player B 2020 fWAR in 50 games-1.8
    One of those is Happ. Which is great for Happ. It's impossible to tell who Player B is. But lets also remember, Cole Calhoun put up 1.8 fWAR last season, too. Wil Meyers put up 1.9 fWAR. 2020 is a weird year and we need to remember it as that. Happ had almost all of his value before September 1st, when he put up a sub 80 wRC+. Is he as bad as he was in September? No. But he's not going to carry a ridiculous 183 wRC+ like he did in August very often, either.

    I think heading forward it's likely that Happ remains around a 2.5-3.5 fWAR type player who is good against RHP and isn't very good against LHP. He is an MLB player, who skews towards being more of a platoon hitter, and probably isn't a CF'er long term; he's more of a corner guy capable of giving decent results in CF for a year or two. He's a really nice secondary piece on a roster, but he's not the player you build around, either.

  3. #48
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    Jul 2018
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    8,103
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    His locker room presence and baseball IQ are worth their weight in gold, you cannot statically qualify those intagibles. More so considering David Ross's liabilities as a manager. Where Happ goes as do the Cubs fortunes.
    IMO, Happ and I'll include Bote are guys you build your bench around, especially if you're a contending championship caliber team.
    They can play multiple positions adequately and are decent with the bat, they're good enough to start games when needed, come in for switches late, and pinch hit

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  4. #49
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    IMO, Happ and I'll include Bote are guys you build your bench around, especially if you're a contending championship caliber team.
    They can play multiple positions adequately and are decent with the bat, they're good enough to start games when needed, come in for switches late, and pinch hit

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
    That's probably an undersell on Happ. Happ is likely a good option for a strong side platoon. Starting Happ, especially at a corner spot, against RHP is a good thing. Hes hit RHP enough that it's pretty easy to see him being someone who hits them well above average and plays fine enough defense.

    Hes better than a "bench" player in the sense he should start against RHP. Hes no where near a franchise builder. Hes a quality secondary piece.

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  5. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    199
    To think this team won the World Series 4 years ago and here we are arguing about building the future of the franchise around a guy who's stat line is elevated by a couple good weeks that carried a small sample size while he was 7th percentile in swing and misses.

  6. #51
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    Jan 2013
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    7,109
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Did Ian Happ hack your account? "Where Happ goes as do the Cubs fortunes"? Are you serious? His "Baseball IQ"? Listen, I like Ian Happ, he seems to have plenty of respect in the Cubs locker room, but let's not act like he's the leader in that room in any way over guys like Rizzo, and Heyward, or David Ross (who doesn't have "liabilities" as a manager, but I'm not jumping down that inane rabbit hole with you a second time, so we're just leaving that there). You don't pay for those things and you certainly don't build a locker room or a franchise around him.

    Show me one franchise who has built around a platoon player and is successful. Because that's certainly not what successful franchises like the Astros, the Dodgers, the Yankees, or the Cubs have been doing. No one does that.

    Again, I think there's a decent argument to be made with a good 2021 season that you consider extending Happ for a few years. He's under control for 2 seasons after this, and probably is a reasonable extend for 2 years after. That'd take you through his age 30 season. A 4/$40-45m deal probably makes sense for both sides where you start around $6-7m and build to around $15m by age 30. Maybe toss in an option year to take him through 31. He's got to prove he's a good MLB player for a full season, something he's struggled to do at times in the past before you offer him that, though. But there's nothing in his profile that says anything like "build a franchise around him" or anything that suggests "As Happ goes the Cubs go". He's a useful role player who is well respected. Let's leave it at that and stop conflating him as more.
    Who was Ryne Sandberg before he was Ryne Sandberg. I wish the Cubs had 7 Ian Happs.

  7. #52
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    Aug 2006
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    57,955
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Who was Ryne Sandberg before he was Ryne Sandberg. I wish the Cubs had 7 Ian Happs.
    If the Cubs had 7 Ian Happs they would be a not very good team unless the other 2 players were absolute superstars. They would also be the worst hitting team in baseball against LHP. They'd be probably pretty awful defensively. I can't believe we are having this conversation. Happ is a fine role player but no one on the planet should believe he's any more. I am completely befuddled by this.

    Also what does Ryne Sandberg have to do with this? How does the Phillies misunderstanding their own players in the early 1980s have to do with Ian Happ? Do...do you think he's somehow on the same planet at Ryne Sandberg in terms of player ability? You can't, can you?

    If you're trying to say "well one time the Phillies misjudged Sandberg so maybe Happ is misjudged"...we have well over 1,000 PAs. We know what Happ is. Sandberg had 6. Six. As in four less than 10. That is under .5% of the PAs Happ has. And Sandberg absolutely murdered AA baseball at age 20 and did really well in AAA for a 21 year old. The Phillies completely botched that. We know what Happ is. I cannot fathom what these two have in common other than "they play baseball".

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    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 01-17-2021 at 10:24 PM.

  8. #53
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    Jun 2010
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    4,332
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    One of those is Happ. Which is great for Happ. It's impossible to tell who Player B is. But lets also remember, Cole Calhoun put up 1.8 fWAR last season, too. Wil Meyers put up 1.9 fWAR. 2020 is a weird year and we need to remember it as that. Happ had almost all of his value before September 1st, when he put up a sub 80 wRC+. Is he as bad as he was in September? No. But he's not going to carry a ridiculous 183 wRC+ like he did in August very often, either.

    I think heading forward it's likely that Happ remains around a 2.5-3.5 fWAR type player who is good against RHP and isn't very good against LHP. He is an MLB player, who skews towards being more of a platoon hitter, and probably isn't a CF'er long term; he's more of a corner guy capable of giving decent results in CF for a year or two. He's a really nice secondary piece on a roster, but he's not the player you build around, either.
    Correct on player A. Player B was Heyward

  9. #54
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    Apr 2008
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    10,051
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    If the Cubs had 7 Ian Happs they would be a not very good team unless the other 2 players were absolute superstars. They would also be the worst hitting team in baseball against LHP. They'd be probably pretty awful defensively. I can't believe we are having this conversation. Happ is a fine role player but no one on the planet should believe he's any more. I am completely befuddled by this.

    Also what does Ryne Sandberg have to do with this? How does the Phillies misunderstanding their own players in the early 1980s have to do with Ian Happ? Do...do you think he's somehow on the same planet at Ryne Sandberg in terms of player ability? You can't, can you?

    If you're trying to say "well one time the Phillies misjudged Sandberg so maybe Happ is misjudged"...we have well over 1,000 PAs. We know what Happ is. Sandberg had 6. Six. As in four less than 10. That is under .5% of the PAs Happ has. And Sandberg absolutely murdered AA baseball at age 20 and did really well in AAA for a 21 year old. The Phillies completely botched that. We know what Happ is. I cannot fathom what these two have in common other than "they play baseball".

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk
    Thank God Dallas Green was making decisions for us at that time. He insisted on Sandberg to be in the deal or DeJesus was not going over there. Green loved Ryno when Green was in in Philly

  10. #55
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILMindState View Post
    Correct on player A. Player B was Heyward
    Oh nice!

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  11. #56
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    Sep 2007
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    Addison, IL
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    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    Shelby Miller hasn't been worth positive fWAR since 2018.

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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    I totally forgot Shelby Miller existed

  14. #59
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    Jan 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Thank God Dallas Green was making decisions for us at that time. He insisted on Sandberg to be in the deal or DeJesus was not going over there. Green loved Ryno when Green was in in Philly
    Green would have loved Happ.


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  15. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Addison, IL
    Posts
    24,994
    Baseball America released their Top 100 prospects list.

    Cubs only have 2 currently in P Brailyn Marquez (#52) and OF Brennen Davis (#74)

    Alzolay and Amaya not ranked in Top 100 and Nico graduated off the list

    2016 World Series Champions!!!


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