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  1. #1381
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    Yea I think the problem is Willy believes he is in the realmuto tier of catcher and in flashes he is but I donít think the cubs go to a level on him that makes him feel ďrespected and the leader of the teamĒ that he believes he is now. Maybe Iím wrong but just donít see WC taking a true value extension this close to FA. I agree with 1908 that I donít like the extension idea with him. He has a lot of miles on this legs the last 5 years and could just as easily fall off a cliff on both sides of the ball in the next 3 years as he could not.

  2. #1382
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Teams have proven that a defensive first C plays just fine. These are types readily available most offseasons. Does the rest of your lineup have to be good? Sure. But the starting WS Cs were Travis D'Darnaud (78 wRC+) and Martin Maldinado (63 wRC+) because both offer strong defensive play.

    The Cubs have the capability over the next two years to build our a strong SP and hitting situation and not overpay for a catcher who may not age well, and realistically isn't that good of a hitter (his last four wRC+'s were 101, 126, 107 and 106). He's a notch above league average and that's it.
    Someone life Martin Maldinado makes up for the low offense with spectacular defense, so WAR is mainly what matters.

    Willson may just be slightly above average offensively but he has the 4th highest wRC+ among catchers with more than 600 PAs over the last 3 seasons.

  3. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Someone life Martin Maldinado makes up for the low offense with spectacular defense, so WAR is mainly what matters.

    Willson may just be slightly above average offensively but he has the 4th highest wRC+ among catchers with more than 600 PAs over the last 3 seasons.
    I used Maldinado as an example of what the Cubs can do if they were to let Contreras walk because I'm well aware of his defensive ability (I mentioned high defensive catchers in that same paragraph for that reason. Both WS starting Cs were of the same ilk). Finding high defensive players at the C position isn't impossible and usually are relatively cheap to acquire. If the Cubs were to let Contreras walk, they'd be able to go this kind of a route and still be a very good team if they so wanted.

    Secondly, his wRC+ doesn't matter at C if he's a DH which is what the original poster suggested. It's why I said word for word "you'd have to be convinced he remained a 2 fWAR catcher" and not a DH for me to consider it. And while his last 3 years is 4th, if you go back to his last 4, his wRC+ drops from 115 to 111. And with players like Will Smith entering the chat, the reality is Contreras is a fine hitter and definitely one of the better hitting Cs but much like Maldindo makes up for his shortcomings with one side of the baseball game. Using fWAR he'd be identical to Mitch Garver the last 4 years. Would you give Garver $18m or so per year? I wouldn't.

    The overall point is that the Cubs have no reason to be beholden to resigning Contreras. He's had injuries. He'll be over 30. Other teams have shown they can run with high defensive Cs who can't hit if they build up the rest of the roster. Contreras price tag is likely to come in at a price that would place him in the catcher top tier. At this juncture I'm not sure that's a good idea. Especially if you're just going to sign him to be a DH. I'm not against it, but right now there's plenty of caution and it's not "what has he done?" but "what will he do"? And I'm not sure age will be generally kind. I think the Cubs can save the money here and use it elsewhere.

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    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 11-25-2021 at 09:39 AM.

  4. #1384
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    Iíd go get Yan Gomes as a ďback upĒ and then shop Willy

  5. #1385
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    I watched Kyle and Willy in Jackson, TN. Kyle played Catcher and I think Willy played 3rd. KS was horrible that night as a catcher... and I knew that he wouldnt make it in the bigs behind the plate. Interesting that I was watching the future Cubs backstop but he wasn't even playing backstop the game I watched.

    Anyways, I think we have no choice but to sign him long term, and I don't hate that idea.
    "But yeah...this is the BLM era and the Dems are running a mass incarceration ticket." ManRam

  6. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    I watched Kyle and Willy in Jackson, TN. Kyle played Catcher and I think Willy played 3rd. KS was horrible that night as a catcher... and I knew that he wouldnt make it in the bigs behind the plate. Interesting that I was watching the future Cubs backstop but he wasn't even playing backstop the game I watched.

    Anyways, I think we have no choice but to sign him long term, and I don't hate that idea.
    I doubt they sign WC to an extension. Unless he is fine with a 2 or 3 year deal I donít see it happening. 2/$25 or 3/$33 range. I donít want him as a DH. And do not like the idea of a longer deal where they end up paying a part time catcher big dollars when he is 34/35/36 years old.

    As for them not having a choice, they absolutely do have a choice. They can trade him now. Then sign a part time guy to go with their current back up. Lots of options and doing it doesnít automatically suggest dumping in 2022.

  7. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    I doubt they sign WC to an extension. Unless he is fine with a 2 or 3 year deal I donít see it happening. 2/$25 or 3/$33 range. I donít want him as a DH. And do not like the idea of a longer deal where they end up paying a part time catcher big dollars when he is 34/35/36 years old.

    As for them not having a choice, they absolutely do have a choice. They can trade him now. Then sign a part time guy to go with their current back up. Lots of options and doing it doesnít automatically suggest dumping in 2022.
    Their current backup right now is Tyler Payne and Erick Castillo, and the current FA group are mostly all in their 30s and hanging on a thread backups.

    Theyd be better off holding onto him til at least the deadline or the year and see what their options are then at catcher.

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  8. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Their current backup right now is Tyler Payne and Erick Castillo, and the current FA group are mostly all in their 30s and hanging on a thread backups.

    Theyd be better off holding onto him til at least the deadline or the year and see what their options are then at catcher.

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    If you think they shouldnít be adding big long term dollars in FA because they donít have enough and are several years away from contending , then I donít understand why you would keep Willy until mid season or extend him . Just move him during the offseason and sign one of the FA catchers , but thatís just me .


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  9. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Their current backup right now is Tyler Payne and Erick Castillo, and the current FA group are mostly all in their 30s and hanging on a thread backups.

    Theyd be better off holding onto him til at least the deadline or the year and see what their options are then at catcher.

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    At the deadline Contreras value would be less than it is now. Way less. Teams donít like bringing a catcher in mid season to handle the staff. If they are going to deal now would be the time. They can sign Gomes to handle the position and maybe Contreras brings them someone to help them in 22í. In. I way am I suggesting they trade him and dump 2022. That might be what they do, but I can also see them dealing WC to better the 2022 team as well. As for guys in their system, who cares. Whoever you mention wouldnít be the catcher anyway.

  10. #1390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dfan25 View Post
    If you think they shouldnít be adding big long term dollars in FA because they donít have enough and are several years away from contending , then I donít understand why you would keep Willy until mid season or extend him . Just move him during the offseason and sign one of the FA catchers , but thatís just me .


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    Im not saying they shouldn't, im just saying i dont think they will do that this offseason and pretty much waste the first year or two of such contract unless they plan on adding better players around that one or two type of FAs also this offseason.

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  11. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    At the deadline Contreras value would be less than it is now. Way less. Teams donít like bringing a catcher in mid season to handle the staff. If they are going to deal now would be the time. They can sign Gomes to handle the position and maybe Contreras brings them someone to help them in 22í. In. I way am I suggesting they trade him and dump 2022. That might be what they do, but I can also see them dealing WC to better the 2022 team as well. As for guys in their system, who cares. Whoever you mention wouldnít be the catcher anyway.
    My response was strictly to you suggesting if they traded him, they have their current backup and can go get some replacement..

    Their backup now are a couple of minor league scrubs, so i hope their considering on bringing in a much better backup as it is.

    Gomes is fine on a 1 or 2 yr deal if they do trade Contreras

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  12. #1392
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    My response was strictly to you suggesting if they traded him, they have their current backup and can go get some replacement..

    Their backup now are a couple of minor league scrubs, so i hope their considering on bringing in a much better backup as it is.

    Gomes is fine on a 1 or 2 yr deal if they do trade Contreras

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    By current back up I meant the back up at the end of the season. Chinonis. I know they have no one ready as a minor leaguer. If they traded WC they would have to pick someone up to replace him.

  13. #1393
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Im not saying they shouldn't, im just saying i dont think they will do that this offseason and pretty much waste the first year or two of such contract unless they plan on adding better players around that one or two type of FAs also this offseason.

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    You live in a world full of contradiction

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  14. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    By current back up I meant the back up at the end of the season. Chinonis. I know they have no one ready as a minor leaguer. If they traded WC they would have to pick someone up to replace him.
    Unfortunately Chirinos is now a FA, and at, I believe, 37 years or 38 years old, is strickly a back up ( although a decent one) only.

  15. #1395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemil505 View Post
    Unfortunately Chirinos is now a FA, and at, I believe, 37 years or 38 years old, is strickly a back up ( although a decent one) only.
    Bottoms line is if the cubs are not going to extend WC (and I donít think they should) they should trade him now, regardless of what they have in the system. If they want to sign Chirinos again AS A BACK UP, and then get someone like Gomes to start the majority of games that is fine with me. Honestly I had wished they traded for Barnhart when they had the chance. I am not suggesting Chirinos is a starting catcher. IMO they shouldnít go into 2022 with WC on the last year of his contract.

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