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  1. #1171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemil505 View Post
    Couldn't tell from the video, but wonder if the reason he only got a single was because of how hard he hit it or if he assumed it would go and just trotted to first?
    I kind of doubt he trotted on that, that was hit on a line. Good play by the LF.

  2. #1172
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    No, im just saying in general id love to see them have a younger rotation next year..

    like this season was a great opportunity to see Steele, Thompson, and Alzolay all get a good look. Probably would of seen Marquez if he wasn't injured..

    That what id like to see next season too, giving younger guys a look over signing older players to 1-3 yr deals.

    Just looked, i thought they were under 25 but Thompson Alzolay and Steele are all 26 which is fine too.

    I just would like to see them have a solid under 30 rotation ready to go in 2-3 seasons for when the younger hitters are up and they can add needed bats around the young hitters that starts over spending on over 30 SP.

    2016 cubs had 4 starters over 30 and within 2 seasons they're spending money on SP over trying to add around the young hitters.
    Id like to see them establish younger starters this time around over the next 2 seasons and then be able to spend on the offense where needed with the prospects coming up.

    Probably easier said then done but that the route id like to see them go

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
    If all of Steele, Thompson, Alzolay are in the rotation next year, theyíll draft in the top 5 in 2023.

    Between these guys being in your desired rotation and your desired lineup being basically this exact same team plus maybe 2 free agents, Iíd say you really want to watch a 95 loss team next year for some reason.

  3. #1173
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    No, im just saying in general id love to see them have a younger rotation next year..

    like this season was a great opportunity to see Steele, Thompson, and Alzolay all get a good look. Probably would of seen Marquez if he wasn't injured..

    That what id like to see next season too, giving younger guys a look over signing older players to 1-3 yr deals.

    Just looked, i thought they were under 25 but Thompson Alzolay and Steele are all 26 which is fine too.

    I just would like to see them have a solid under 30 rotation ready to go in 2-3 seasons for when the younger hitters are up and they can add needed bats around the young hitters that starts over spending on over 30 SP.

    2016 cubs had 4 starters over 30 and within 2 seasons they're spending money on SP over trying to add around the young hitters.
    Id like to see them establish younger starters this time around over the next 2 seasons and then be able to spend on the offense where needed with the prospects coming up.

    Probably easier said then done but that the route id like to see them go

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
    You believe a team that has kind of developed one starter in the past seven or eight years is going to come up with 4-5 for next year? Ok.

  4. #1174
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    No, im just saying in general id love to see them have a younger rotation next year..

    like this season was a great opportunity to see Steele, Thompson, and Alzolay all get a good look. Probably would of seen Marquez if he wasn't injured..

    That what id like to see next season too, giving younger guys a look over signing older players to 1-3 yr deals.
    Tapatalk
    It would be nice but problem is all our MLB younger starters are mediocre. I'd be pleasantly surprised if anyone in our system becomes better than a #4. Id be happy if 1 of them like Marquez or Jensen can be a #3 but not banking on it, could turn into pen guys. I don't see how we can win any time in the foreseeable future without multiple FA starters or trading valuable position prospects. Would be nice to be the Marlins or Brewers but we aren't.

  5. #1175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    It would be nice but problem is all our MLB younger starters are mediocre.
    Right now they are but we don't know what those arms will be in a year or two.
    Screw sabermetics.

  6. #1176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemil505 View Post
    Couldn't tell from the video, but wonder if the reason he only got a single was because of how hard he hit it or if he assumed it would go and just trotted to first?
    He was half way to second, head up and clearly trying for 2nd. He hustled out of the box. He hit it too hard.

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  7. #1177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefire View Post
    Right now they are but we don't know what those arms will be in a year or two.
    Probably mediocre. I think the Cubs have the bottom of the rotation coveted right now. Between Alzolay, Steele, Mills...there's a 4/5 there. What they don't have is anything above mediocre. Even in 2 years between those guys. These prospects were non-elite prospects they're highly unlikely to magically be better than mediocre. Two years from now? Still mediocre.

    I've been one of, if not the most bullish on the Cubs system. Getting a "free" BORP or 3 is pretty good; there's nothing to turn your nose up on it like some here want to do. But it's also not going to turn out more then that with those guys.

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  8. #1178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
    Lots of good young prospects around the same age. Most should make the Cubs more or less around the same time, that will be fun to watch.
    If these guys pan out, I'd like to see them finally have the ability to extend these guys so we don't have to trade another "core" because of them walking in their contract year. I'm not sure why they struggle to do that. All I can think of is Rizzo signing an extension. Bote too, but he's not really part of anything but the bench.
    Last edited by thawv; 09-20-2021 at 08:06 AM.

  9. #1179
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    If all of Steele, Thompson, Alzolay are in the rotation next year, theyíll draft in the top 5 in 2023.

    Between these guys being in your desired rotation and your desired lineup being basically this exact same team plus maybe 2 free agents, Iíd say you really want to watch a 95 loss team next year for some reason.
    What the difference from being a 80+ loss team or a 95 loss team, neither makes the playoffs..

    Theyre gonna spend cause they have plenty available but there really not much available out there that gonna make them a legit playoff team and i guarantee you theyre gonna stick with Schwindel Hoerner Happ probably Wisdom Ortega for another year along with Heyward, so the offense is gonna basically still be the same another year.

    The SP available via FA are all 30+ and majority are not much better then Davies and Mills.

    So yeah, if Hoyer and the new GM can get 3 or 4 younger arms to go with Hendricks( if they dont trade him) then yeah id prefer going that route to see what they can do over adding a couple older FA just to try and compete in 2022

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  10. #1180
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    2021 Chicago Cubs Minor League Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    What the difference from being a 80+ loss team or a 95 loss team, neither makes the playoffs..

    Theyre gonna spend cause they have plenty available but there really not much available out there that gonna make them a legit playoff team and i guarantee you theyre gonna stick with Schwindel Hoerner Happ probably Wisdom Ortega for another year along with Heyward, so the offense is gonna basically still be the same another year.

    The SP available via FA are all 30+ and majority are not much better then Davies and Mills.

    So yeah, if Hoyer and the new GM can get 3 or 4 younger arms to go with Hendricks( if they dont trade him) then yeah id prefer going that route to see what they can do over adding a couple older FA just to try and compete in 2022

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    Wait, where are Hoyer and the new GM going to get 3 or 4 young arms? Didnít we just establish that the Cubs donít have any of these and they donít exist on the free agent market? Are you still suggesting that they could trade for 3 or 4 young starting pitchers all this offseason or are you asking them to give all their starts to bad internal options just because they are young (even though none of them are actually that young)?

    I donít see why the options need to be to lose 80+ games or to lose 95+ games. There are other things they could do to compete as soon as next year and make the playoffs in what will likely be an expanded postseason. It would require spending money and signing good players over 25 years old. There are pitchers much better than Davies on the market and tons of hitters that would improve this roster.

    If you want to say that you expect them to go cheap and not bring in the talent that they need to bring in because they donít want to spend the money, then fine. Thatís probably true. What I disagree with is that you seem to want them to go cheap and intentionally put a bad team on the field next year while waiting for prospects who are still really far away. No fan should want them to do that.
    Last edited by CP_414; 09-20-2021 at 11:18 AM.

  11. #1181
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Wait, where are Hoyer and the new GM going to get 3 or 4 young arms? Didnít we just establish that the Cubs donít have any of these and they donít exist on the free agent market? Are you still suggesting that they could trade for 3 or 4 young starting pitchers all this offseason or are you asking them to give all their starts to bad internal options just because they are young (even though none of them are actually that young)?

    I donít see why the options need to be to lose 80+ games or to lose 95+ games. There are other things they could do to compete as soon as next year and make the playoffs in what will likely be an expanded postseason. It would require spending money and signing good players over 25 years old. There are pitchers much better than Davies on the market and tons of hitters that would improve this roster.

    If you want to say that you expect them to go cheap and not bring in the talent that they need to bring in because they donít want to spend the money, then fine. Thatís probably true. What I disagree with is that you seem to want them to go cheap and intentionally put a bad team on the field next year while waiting for prospects who are still really far away. No fan should want them to do that.
    Contreras Schwindel Madrigal Hoerner Wisdom Happ Ortega Heyward

    They may add a SS and or OF

    You see them not going with any of those guys next season

    Ok, those guys aren't winning 85+ games to take them into the playoffs even with a couple 30+ FA SP in the rotation that slightly better then Mills and Davies.

    Outside of Hendricks who will probably return..
    They still have Alzolay Thompson and Steele, and at some point during the season we'll probably see Marquez Kilian and Jensen come up.

    So, no they dont need to go out and trade for a bunch of young arms, they just need to try and get a couple young arms to join the mix they already have.

    Would i prefer they spend on the best available FA, of course, but i doubt that what gonna happen

    We're gonna see them go another season with those hitters who collectively probably wont be as good as theyve been the last month or so..

    So, like i said, i would prefer they give younger arms a look at in the rotation over signing a couple 30+ guys that probably wont be around or as good when they are a legit playoff team

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  12. #1182
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Contreras Schwindel Madrigal Hoerner Wisdom Happ Ortega Heyward

    They may add a SS and or OF

    You see them not going with any of those guys next season

    Ok, those guys aren't winning 85+ games to take them into the playoffs even with a couple 30+ FA SP in the rotation that slightly better then Mills and Davies.

    Outside of Hendricks who will probably return..
    They still have Alzolay Thompson and Steele, and at some point during the season we'll probably see Marquez Kilian and Jensen come up.

    So, no they dont need to go out and trade for a bunch of young arms, they just need to try and get a couple young arms to join the mix they already have.

    Would i prefer they spend on the best available FA, of course, but i doubt that what gonna happen

    We're gonna see them go another season with those hitters who collectively probably wont be as good as theyve been the last month or so..

    So, like i said, i would prefer they give younger arms a look at in the rotation over signing a couple 30+ guys that probably wont be around or as good when they are a legit playoff team

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    Not arguing at all about this, but I think that the pitchers you mentioned as an option are not really MLB caliber pitchers, or are destined for the pen. Marching those guys out there coupled with the starting lineup which consists of mostly bench players is a recipe for a top 5 pick after next season.

    Whether we like it or not, we are going to have to spend on older FA pitching if we want to compete. I doubt anybody is trading a good young pitcher to us.

  13. #1183
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Not arguing at all about this, but I think that the pitchers you mentioned as an option are not really MLB caliber pitchers, or are destined for the pen. Marching those guys out there coupled with the starting lineup which consists of mostly bench players is a recipe for a top 5 pick after next season.

    Whether we like it or not, we are going to have to spend on older FA pitching if we want to compete. I doubt anybody is trading a good young pitcher to us.
    I never said they won't, im just saying that I would prefer they just go with the younger guys in the rotation mainly because I see next year being pretty much the same as this year with the bats and adding a couple older FA SP isnt gonna make much of a difference...

    So, id just rather see them get more of a look at younger pitching then adding older SP just to try and compete more..

    I dont care if they draft 5th or 15th if theyre not really gonna do much better

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  14. #1184
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    2021 Chicago Cubs Minor League Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Contreras Schwindel Madrigal Hoerner Wisdom Happ Ortega Heyward

    They may add a SS and or OF

    You see them not going with any of those guys next season
    Lol, what? Please tell me more about what I see. Iím curious to learn more of my own opinions from you.

    That is not what I see, and it isnít what I want either.

    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post

    Ok, those guys aren't winning 85+ games to take them into the playoffs even with a couple 30+ FA SP in the rotation that slightly better then Mills and Davies.
    What is this ďslightly better than DaviesĒ nonsense again? Davies is replacement level. He has a 5.49 era and a 6.35 xERA. Mills has earned his own 4.5 era too. Do you really not think there are massive upgrades available in free agency? Thatís absurd.

    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post

    Outside of Hendricks who will probably return..
    They still have Alzolay Thompson and Steele, and at some point during the season we'll probably see Marquez Kilian and Jensen come up.


    So, no they dont need to go out and trade for a bunch of young arms, they just need to try and get a couple young arms to join the mix they already have.
    The mix they have is terrible. Alzolay just had an awful year and he canít get lefties out. Thompson just isnít a good mlb level pitcher. I actually sort of like Steele but I think heíll be much more effective in the pen. Marquez hasnít had a full season in 2 years and carries a ton of reliever risk. He hasnít even pitched in AA yet. Kilian looks alright but he needs at least a half season in AAA and then weíll see. Jensen finished the year strong but he probably still opens in Tennessee so he isnít exactly breaking down the door to mlb yet. Thatís an awful group of starters for 2022.

    So yeah if you want them to have a rotation full of young starters who have a chance to be impactful starters in a few years they need to acquire them because they donít have those guys for 2022 internally. The only guys there that you can dream on wonít be in the majors for most of 2022.

    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post

    Would i prefer they spend on the best available FA, of course, but i doubt that what gonna happen

    We're gonna see them go another season with those hitters who collectively probably wont be as good as theyve been the last month or so..

    So, like i said, i would prefer they give younger arms a look at in the rotation over signing a couple 30+ guys that probably wont be around or as good when they are a legit playoff team
    You seem to have created a false choice for yourself. Youíve ruled out the idea of them acquiring good players so the options to you are to acquire older bad players or to give the rotation spots to internal bad players. I donít accept that these are the 2 choices.
    Last edited by CP_414; 09-20-2021 at 03:19 PM.

  15. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    He was half way to second, head up and clearly trying for 2nd. He hustled out of the box. He hit it too hard.

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    Thanks for that info.

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