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  1. #886
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Trade Lowry and they lose 80% of their games
    Not happening
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Which is even worse because then our pick wonít be **** and I have no interest in watching the Raptors get spanked and swept out of the first round.

    Sometimes itís better to admit the mistake and reset. Going forward with this core is a mistake and could set the franchise back years. If Lowry walks in free agency (highly probable) this team is dead in the water. If youíve ever watched a Raptors game, that entire team goes as far as Lowry takes them. When he sits, they are completely lost. If he doesnít play itís a scheduled win for the other team.

    Weíre at that stage now where we need to admit to a couple of mistakes. One Siakam is not a franchise player, first option, or a max contract player. We gotta accept that, and maybe try to trade him for young prospects and picks while we can. Lowry is 35 and has no business being on a treadmill team or one thats headed in to a rebuild. Trade him to a contender for picks and assets before losing him for nothing. Hit that reset and build around FVV.

    The day the Raptors lost Ibaka and Gasol is the day they lost their defensive identity and as a result will never be the same, not with this core group. Time to move on. It was a good run, but management handles the talent poorly in the end and it all crumbled down.
    Remember when Raps fans wanted to do a full rebuild instead of re-signing DeMar? You need to learn from the past. Raps are developing this year. Once they acquire John Collins in the off-season the team will be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  3. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Remember when Raps fans wanted to do a full rebuild instead of re-signing DeMar? You need to learn from the past. Raps are developing this year. Once they acquire John Collins in the off-season the team will be fine.
    I remember everyone wanting Demar to come back only he was 27 at the time and Lowry turning 35 in a month. I love Lowry, but I also love food before it expires too lol.

    We gotta be proactive in this situation, rather than being reactive. Remember when Gasol and Ibaka walked as free agents and we got nothing for them? And then got left with Baynes? That can easily happen again this off-season with Lowry. As much as you want to be idealistic about the situation, the reality is he can get either paid or play for a contender. Heís not taking a pay cut on a team friendly deal to return to the Raptors. Heís nearing the end of his career why wouldnít he want to get the most out of it?

  4. #889
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Not happening
    I understand you donít want it to happen. But there a good chance that I can happen.

  5. #890
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I understand you donít want it to happen. But there a good chance that I can happen.
    Not just because I don't want it to. It makes no sense. Yeah, let's trade the heart and soul of the team for what? Salary filler and a late 1st?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  6. #891
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I remember everyone wanting Demar to come back only he was 27 at the time and Lowry turning 35 in a month. I love Lowry, but I also love food before it expires too lol.

    We gotta be proactive in this situation, rather than being reactive. Remember when Gasol and Ibaka walked as free agents and we got nothing for them? And then got left with Baynes? That can easily happen again this off-season with Lowry. As much as you want to be idealistic about the situation, the reality is he can get either paid or play for a contender. Heís not taking a pay cut on a team friendly deal to return to the Raptors. Heís nearing the end of his career why wouldnít he want to get the most out of it?
    Okay let me ask you this. If we sign John Collins in the off-season will we be a better team with Lowry or the 1st round pick he got us?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  7. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Okay let me ask you this. If we sign John Collins in the off-season will we be a better team with Lowry or the 1st round pick he got us?
    I donít think youíve considered all the factors at play here. Heís 35 bro, what does that signify to you? How many years do you believe he has before he declines? And with that in mind what sort of contract are you offering him to stay? Curious to know kind of deal you have for Lowry going forward.. 2 years? 3 years? How much per year? Letís start there. Iím trying to understand your plan of keeping a 35 year old aging star. If it makes sense Iím all for it.

  8. #893
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Okay let me ask you this. If we sign John Collins in the off-season will we be a better team with Lowry or the 1st round pick he got us?
    I donít think he makes the current core a contender. I also donít think he will sign here. How much are you offering Collins after signing Lowry? This is why I wanted to ask you what sort of deal you think keeps Lowry here because thatís the first domino and then we need to see how much cap space weíre working with

  9. #894
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Losing Wood will have a massive effect as he's really only their reliable scoring option when it comes to bigs. Once Wood is back though, they'll be fine.
    I'm still not sold on this squad even when it's healthy. They had a good stretch when everyone was healthy and they were playing mediocre opponents. But between Wood, Wall and Dipo, I just don't think they can expect to get 80% of a season out of all three guys. And Oladipo has been just straight up terrible; he's a minus right not when he's on the floor offensively.

    The Wood injury is an easy scapegoat, but this team has problems way beyond that. If they had a full offseason and more time to work out the kinks and Oladipo could find his game, I still think there's something here with this squad. But they can't stay healthy long enough to figure it out, they're too erratic offensively, Oladipo's not getting any better the longer he's been here, and the trade deadline looms large in late March.

    I genuinely hope they don't try to cling to this roster and re-sign Oladipo in the offseason. If they do, I think it'll be a huge mistake. He's going to get overpaid by somebody, and I hope it's not the Rockets.


  10. #895
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I donít think youíve considered all the factors at play here. Heís 35 bro, what does that signify to you? How many years do you believe he has before he declines? And with that in mind what sort of contract are you offering him to stay? Curious to know kind of deal you have for Lowry going forward.. 2 years? 3 years? How much per year? Letís start there. Iím trying to understand your plan of keeping a 35 year old aging star. If it makes sense Iím all for it.
    A 1 year deal is what I'd offer. If he leaves, he leaves. If we trade Lowry for a 1st then we have a young player to develop. Don't get me wrong, I like Malachi Flynn but that's the calibre of player I'd be expecting from a pick we get in a Lowry deal. Late 20's

    Is that going to help the team moving forward? Maybe in like 3 or 4 years when Pascal, Fred and OG are all older/gone. The other option would be to sign Lowry to a 1 year deal, max John Collins then run with Collins, Siakam, OG, Fred, Lowry. The latter poses a higher risk but a much greater reward.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  11. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    A 1 year deal is what I'd offer. If he leaves, he leaves. If we trade Lowry for a 1st then we have a young player to develop. Don't get me wrong, I like Malachi Flynn but that's the calibre of player I'd be expecting from a pick we get in a Lowry deal. Late 20's

    Is that going to help the team moving forward? Maybe in like 3 or 4 years when Pascal, Fred and OG are all older/gone. The other option would be to sign Lowry to a 1 year deal, max John Collins then run with Collins, Siakam, OG, Fred, Lowry. The latter poses a higher risk but a much greater reward.
    The pick we get in the deal depends entirely on the team we trade with. Maybe we donít get a pick at all. Maybe we package a pick along with Lowry and go for an impact player that fits FVV/Siakam/OG window.

    Also Iím not against another one year deal but not at 30 million. And the older Lowry gets the less valuable he becomes in the trade market. One bad injury, or decline in production and his value will diminish.

    Weather this year or next. We have to start thinking about life after Lowry. Itís sucks but itís our reality. I am glad we groomed FVV as his replacement, and he has learned a ton from Lowry. Atleast weíre not with out a good pg going fwd. Freddy looks ready to take over whenever that day comes and thatís a great sign.

  12. #897
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    If I'm the Raps and I'm still hovering at .500 around the deadline I trade Kyle to a near contender for salary match and a future 1st.

    JJ Redick + Lonzo Ball + one of the Pels 10,000 1sts?
    Maybe find a team to take one JJ for some young players and a 2nd?

  13. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    If I'm the Raps and I'm still hovering at .500 around the deadline I trade Kyle to a near contender for salary match and a future 1st.

    JJ Redick + Lonzo Ball + one of the Pels 10,000 1sts?
    Maybe find a team to take one JJ for some young players and a 2nd?
    Yeah we have options. We can retool for the group in place or we can collect assets. Either way we gotta start weighing those options.

  14. #899
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I'm still not sold on this squad even when it's healthy. They had a good stretch when everyone was healthy and they were playing mediocre opponents. But between Wood, Wall and Dipo, I just don't think they can expect to get 80% of a season out of all three guys. And Oladipo has been just straight up terrible; he's a minus right not when he's on the floor offensively.

    The Wood injury is an easy scapegoat, but this team has problems way beyond that. If they had a full offseason and more time to work out the kinks and Oladipo could find his game, I still think there's something here with this squad. But they can't stay healthy long enough to figure it out, they're too erratic offensively, Oladipo's not getting any better the longer he's been here, and the trade deadline looms large in late March.

    I genuinely hope they don't try to cling to this roster and re-sign Oladipo in the offseason. If they do, I think it'll be a huge mistake. He's going to get overpaid by somebody, and I hope it's not the Rockets.
    Iím a little confused as to what the direction is of this team. Honestly, thought we would completely rebuild after the Harden trade. The bright spot is Wood, and the fact that Wall can still play.

  15. #900
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    The pick we get in the deal depends entirely on the team we trade with. Maybe we donít get a pick at all. Maybe we package a pick along with Lowry and go for an impact player that fits FVV/Siakam/OG window.

    Also Iím not against another one year deal but not at 30 million. And the older Lowry gets the less valuable he becomes in the trade market. One bad injury, or decline in production and his value will diminish.

    Weather this year or next. We have to start thinking about life after Lowry. Itís sucks but itís our reality. I am glad we groomed FVV as his replacement, and he has learned a ton from Lowry. Atleast weíre not with out a good pg going fwd. Freddy looks ready to take over whenever that day comes and thatís a great sign.
    Okay then, what do you expect in return for Lowry? Just a lot of maybes but no actual expectations.

    Yeah I'm not trying to pay him 30 mil. Something more like 10-12.

    I get that we have to think about life after Lowry. It's just that whatever Lowry brings back is going to help less than the actual Kyle Lowry would. Lowry easily has 2 more years to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

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