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  1. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    You're leaving out a few very important factors. He's been here for almost a decade, it's HIS team, he's won a championship here and the love between him and the city is reciprocal. I have a hard time believing he wants to walk away from the empire that he literally built. The whole culture of the Raptors is literally embodied in Kyle Lowry.
    All of that is true. But none of it will be diminished if we trade him to Philly. Or to a contender that he would be happy to join. He will still be celebrated as the groat raptor, he will still have his number retired, he will likely even get a statue at some point. But we really are headed towards the end of that era as a franchise, it t ended with a championship which is the best way for any team era to end but weíre starting a new era with a new core that we just committed too and I think we gotta look toward building a contender with them for the next 5-6 years instead of just looking at this season or next when we clearly donít look like a contender and time is ticketing on Lowrys career. This is almost the best happy ending there could be. Send the guy home to a contender and I think he is most def happy with that.

  2. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Yeah, the way I look at it is if Iím Lowry Iím going to end my career on a contender because I can still play at a high level. The only reason I would stay in Toronto is if they offered me another big contract which no player would turn down at 35. But Toronto has a bunch of money tied up with Siakam, FVV, and OG now. Giving Lowry another big contract would take away our ability to further improve around that core. So if sending Lowry off to a contender like Philly could land us a pick, and prospects like Thybulle & Bradley Iím gonna sign up for that because weíre at a point where we need to retool around the new core we just committed too. And the reality is that Lowry can just leave in about 5 months.

    So if the decision is between a first round pick and prospects vs nothing, I think you gotta go for it. Atleast you know your sending Lowry home to a contender. Itís not like weíre shopping him off to Cleveland (sorry Vee)
    Right, and if you bring Lowry back on a 2-3 year contract, you're pretty much locking yourself into this team over the next few years. But this squad, as it's constructed, realistically can't compete for a title. Not unless Siakam, FVV or OG somehow find some untapped potential and become a top 10 caliber player.

    The Rockets are in a similar boat with Oladipo. They could bring him back and maybeóif Wood stays healthyóthey could compete for that 6-8 seed the next couple of years. But I'd rather see them clean house and try to build up a young core around draft picks instead.


  3. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    All of that is true. But none of it will be diminished if we trade him to Philly. Or to a contender that he would be happy to join. He will still be celebrated as the groat raptor, he will still have his number retired, he will likely even get a statue at some point. But we really are headed towards the end of that era as a franchise, it t ended with a championship which is the best way for any team era to end but weíre starting a new era with a new core that we just committed too and I think we gotta look toward building a contender with them for the next 5-6 years instead of just looking at this season or next when we clearly donít look like a contender and time is ticketing on Lowrys career. This is almost the best happy ending there could be. Send the guy home to a contender and I think he is most def happy with that.
    ......what?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  4. #1024
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Nothing of immediate or future significance. This is 100% why I want to keep Lowry and not trade him.

    The packages we came up with were Beasley and Davis or Bradley, Thybulle, 1st and filler. This is the reason I don't want to trade him. Kyle Lowry himself will be more beneficial to the Raps moving forward than any package he could get in return.
    That strategy worked out well with Gasol and Ibaka... To a lesser extent Kawhi and Green.

  5. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    That strategy worked out well with Gasol and Ibaka... To a lesser extent Kawhi and Green.
    Don't forget Bosh!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Don't forget Bosh!
    Meh, Bosh wasn't a hired gun he was drafted, never accomplished anything with Tampa and signed an extension or 2.

  7. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    ......what?
    Meaning he will still be celebrated as the groat raptor, he will still have his jersey retired. If and when he moves on, it wonít tarnish his legacy as a raptor at all.

    Whatís the alternative? All that feel good, fluffy stuff is great, but do you expect him to give us some sorta discount and return on a team friendly deal? Whoís to say he doesnít exercise any and every option that comes his way in free agency? Are we assuming that Lowry and his agent are emotional girls who only care about the sentimental stuff?

    Theyíre gonna look at his free agency like dude can still play. He will want to get paid, or maybe he decides winning another ship is more important. Either way we canít really afford him either of those things as we are not currently near contention, nor do we want to give him another hefty contract considering we just extended Siakam, FVV, and OG. If we retained Lowry we wouldnít have much cap space to further improve on the team we have now. And he knows that. Even if we are ok with status quote, whoís to say he is?

    And while we hold on to that fuzzy sentimental stuff, we canít forget that we traded two of Lowrys closest friends (Gay & Derozan) while preaching itís just a business. Well now itís his turn to test the market and if he does leave itíll just be business. Thatís the nature of the NBA. And we need to accept that reality.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 02-25-2021 at 05:36 PM.

  8. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Meaning he will still be celebrated as the groat raptor, he will still have his jersey retired. If and when he moves on, it wonít tarnish his legacy as a raptor at all.

    Whatís the alternative? All that feel good, fluffy stuff is great, but do you expect him to give us some sorta discount and return on a team friendly deal? Whoís to say he doesnít exercise any and every option that comes his way in free agency? Are we assuming that Lowry and his agent are emotional girls who only care about the sentimental stuff? No theyíre gonna look at his free agency like dude can still play. He will want to get paid, or maybe he decided winning another ship is more important. Either way we canít really afford him either of those things as we are not currently near contention, nor do we want to give him another hefty contest considering we just extended Siakam, FVV, and OG. If we retained Lowry we wouldnít have much cap space to further improve on the team we have now. And he knows that. Even if we are ok with status quote, whoís to say he is?

    And while we hold on to that fuzzy sentimental stuff, we canít forget that we traded two of Lowrys closest friends (Gay & Derozan) while perching itís just a business. Well now itís his turn to test the market and if he does leave itíll just be business. Thatís the nature of the NBA.
    That wasn't even what I was saying though? I'm saying it's hard for him to leave all that behind. You're saying him leaving it behind won't tarnish his legacy and I agree with that. It's just that's not the point I was trying to make. I'm saying it will be hard for him to leave that all behind. I just want to make that perfectly clear that it has nothing to do with tarnishing his legacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  9. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    That wasn't even what I was saying though? I'm saying it's hard for him to leave all that behind. You're saying him leaving it behind won't tarnish his legacy and I agree with that. It's just that's not the point I was trying to make. I'm saying it will be hard for him to leave that all behind. I just want to make that perfectly clear that it has nothing to do with tarnishing his legacy.
    Which is a fair point my man. But Iím guessing itíll be a lot easier for him since he would be going home, like Kawhi did and also will be joining a contender all while still getting all props and love from Toronto.

  10. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Right, and if you bring Lowry back on a 2-3 year contract, you're pretty much locking yourself into this team over the next few years. But this squad, as it's constructed, realistically can't compete for a title. Not unless Siakam, FVV or OG somehow find some untapped potential and become a top 10 caliber player.

    The Rockets are in a similar boat with Oladipo. They could bring him back and maybeóif Wood stays healthyóthey could compete for that 6-8 seed the next couple of years. But I'd rather see them clean house and try to build up a young core around draft picks instead.
    The three you mentioned are actually still tapping in to untapped potential, namely FVV who has taken another step this year and looks even better than years prior. The main issue is our front court has been depleted and we struggle rebounding, protecting the paint, as a result our defence has taken a slide. Weíve only had some success lately because weíve gone small out of necessity. Weíre just so soft in the middle on both sides and that will only be exposed further in the post season which is my main concern.

    Comparatively, I hated when Houston went super small last year too. I just donít think that is a winning strategy in the post season when the game slows down and is played in more of a half court set.

    Even the Warriors who made going small famous always had a Bogut, or a McGee. It wasnít like they were playing a 6í6 small forward at the 5. Having Baynes is even worse Thant that for the Raptors. The guy is utterly useless.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 02-25-2021 at 05:50 PM.

  11. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Which is a fair point my man. But Iím guessing itíll be a lot easier for him since he would be going home, like Kawhi did and also will be joining a contender all while still getting all props and love from Toronto.
    Yes but now you're discounting my original statement with the championship and the whole team culture literally being built around him. It's not like that will be waiting for him in Philly. Yeah, it's home but he literally built an empire in Toronto and I have a very hard time seeing a person, especially a person like Kyle Lowry, want to walk away from all that. These are human beings, my dude. It's not like Kyle Lowry hung around for 8 years, forced roster moves, forced coaching changes then asked to get out.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  12. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Yes but now you're discounting my original statement with the championship and the whole team culture literally being built around him. It's not like that will be waiting for him in Philly. Yeah, it's home but he literally built an empire in Toronto and I have a very hard time seeing a person, especially a person like Kyle Lowry, want to walk away from all that. These are human beings, my dude. It's not like Kyle Lowry hung around for 8 years, forced roster moves, forced coaching changes then asked to get out.
    Yeah he built all those things on route to a championship. That goal has been achieved. Does life stop after that? Does the current team give him the same opportunity? No it doesnt. Does he have enough time to wait until we get back there? No he doesnít. Lifeís moves on, as do players, as do teams.

    I witnessed Lebron go from his home town to Miami, won a ship, left his best buddy Wade to go back home to Cleveland and there he won a ship for his home town, and then left again to LA.

    I witnessed Tony Parker win 4 championships and played his entire career with the Spurs before he finished his career with Charlotte of all places.

    I saw Pippen win 6 titles in Chicago before he went on to Portland and Houston

    I saw Garnet spend 14 seasons + in Minnisota before going on to win a ship with Boston and then returning to Minnisota to retire

    I saw Wade win 3 championships in Miami before he signed with the Bulls for a huge pay day and then going on to Cleveland to ring chase and then return to Miami to retire.

    I saw Kawhi win a ship in San Antonio and demanded a trade then left after winning a championship in Toronto before joining a contender at home in LA.

    I saw Durant leave the team he built only to join the team that beat him, and then after winning two championships with that team, opted to leave and join Brooklyn.

    There is no loyalty in the NBA any more. Itís a business and everyone treats it as such now. You never see anyone get surprised when a player is traded, or when a player leaves in free agency.

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Yeah he built all those things on route to a championship. That goal has been achieved. Does life stop after that? Does the current team give him the same opportunity? No it doesnt. Does he have enough time to wait until we get back there? No he doesnít. Lifeís moves on, as do players, as do teams.

    I witnessed Lebron go from his home town to Miami, won a ship, left his best buddy Wade to go back home to Cleveland and there he won a ship for his home town, and then left again to LA.

    I witnessed Tony Parker win 4 championships and played his entire career with the Spurs before he finished his career with Charlotte of all places.

    I saw Pippen win 6 titles in Chicago before he went on to Portland and Houston

    I saw Garnet spend 14 seasons + in Minnisota before going on to win a ship with Boston and then returning to Minnisota to retire

    I saw Wade win 3 championships in Miami before he signed with the Bulls for a huge pay day and then going on to Cleveland to ring chase and then return to Miami to retire.

    I saw Kawhi win a ship in San Antonio and demanded a trade then left after winning a championship in Toronto before joining a contender at home in LA.

    I saw Durant leave the team he built only to join the team that beat him, and then after winning two championships with that team, opted to leave and join Brooklyn.

    There is no loyalty in the NBA any more. Itís a business and everyone treats it as such now. You never see anyone get surprised when a player is traded, or when a player leaves in free agency.
    No, it doesn't. That's my point.

    Lol @ your speech. I saw a lot of things too. None of them have anything to do with Kyle Lowry's situation lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  14. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    On the bright side, the Raptors are pretty much guaranteed to hit .500 tomorrow night after an easy beatdown of the Rockets.
    lol, uve completely detatched yourself from that team and this season

  15. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    lol, uve completely detatched yourself from that team and this season
    I broke him.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

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