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  1. #121
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    Apr 2018
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    I don't see a problem with the benching as long as stuff like this is done across the board....In sports everyone is replaceable at some point....these guys should realize that their spot in the lineup could be taken by a talented younger player who's hungrier to play then they are....it's basically a wake-up call....

    This team will be taking turns sitting a game the way most are playing....they have a very lackluster look to their game...

  2. #122
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsNutMike View Post
    I don't see a problem with the benching as long as stuff like this is done across the board....In sports everyone is replaceable at some point....these guys should realize that their spot in the lineup could be taken by a talented younger player who's hungrier to play then they are....it's basically a wake-up call....

    This team will be taking turns sitting a game the way most are playing....they have a very lackluster look to their game...
    You don't get bonus points points wakeup calls. And there's little proof other than conjecture any of this stuff ever makes a real tangible difference.

    Again, fans love it because they can see it. There are other, just as effective ways to address poor play that doesn't directly incapacitate your teams on ice talent. It's just old school BS. It's the same type of stuff as "fiery coaches" who yell. Its visible and fans can see. It feels like it matters when there are other ways to do these things. AV can address poor play by switching lines, changing offensive philosophy, changing practice, sit downs...we are just 10 games into a season, there's no way we have exhausted everything prior to "sit talented players".

    For all of the "maybe" good people point to, you can point to all of the "maybe" bad of sitting players. The Flyers should be more creative and flexible than resorting to sitting talent I'm favor of "defenseman who's never played offense" before. If youre going to be dead set on sitting a very talented player, at the very least,, do it for a player who might contribute and had upside in the lineup. Sam Morin wasn't going to contribute and that was painfully obvious. It makes a bad choice and just exacerbates the mistake. Vignault didn't even want to play Morin; he got 5 minutes.

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 02-01-2021 at 12:51 PM.

  3. #123
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    Jul 2007
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    2,152
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    They are adults and professionals. Sitting Koneceny didn't make the team any better that day. Giroux, Voracek, Hart...no one played better because they sat him. They got thoroughly outplayed for most of the game. They took 2 points, but it wasn't like the team was any more disciplined, they didn't control the puck. The processes was that of a loss, they got lucky to get those points. Sitting Koneceny almost cost them points. It didn't gain them anything.

    Fans like sitting good players for a game because it's a visual representation to them on how "effort = something" because we're not in the locker room, we don't see practice or hear everything, we don't get their texts and phone calls. But it's always a stupid idea to make your team less talented on the ice for something that can be handled another way. Sure, Koneceny hasn't played great this year. He's not on the ice driving play like he was in the past. He's also one of the most talented players we have. There are other ways to work through that than to purposefully make your team weaker on the ice.
    Even adult professional sports athletes need to be reigned in once in a while. Any good coach knows that. Konecny came out hustling last night and backchecking much better than previous games. Patrick will most likely be next.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    You don't get bonus points points wakeup calls. And there's little proof other than conjecture any of this stuff ever makes a real tangible difference.

    Again, fans love it because they can see it. There are other, just as effective ways to address poor play that doesn't directly incapacitate your teams on ice talent. It's just old school BS. It's the same type of stuff as "fiery coaches" who yell. Its visible and fans can see. It feels like it matters when there are other ways to do these things. AV can address poor play by switching lines, changing offensive philosophy, changing practice, sit downs...we are just 10 games into a season, there's no way we have exhausted everything prior to "sit talented players".

    For all of the "maybe" good people point to, you can point to all of the "maybe" bad of sitting players. The Flyers should be more creative and flexible than resorting to sitting talent I'm favor of "defenseman who's never played offense" before. If youre going to be dead set on sitting a very talented player, at the very least,, do it for a player who might contribute and had upside in the lineup. Sam Morin wasn't going to contribute and that was painfully obvious. It makes a bad choice and just exacerbates the mistake. Vignault didn't even want to play Morin; he got 5 minutes.

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk
    Have you ever coached?

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc27 View Post
    Even adult professional sports athletes need to be reigned in once in a while. Any good coach knows that. Konecny came out hustling last night and backchecking much better than previous games. Patrick will most likely be next.
    He played just as hard as he ever did. Anything attributed to that game off is pure conjecture and it's why it's stupid. I would bet heavy that he played just as hard as prior. Or if he had been disciplined in a way that doesnt take talent off the ice. Hell, I'd argue you create an environment of fear and hesitation to act when you start sitting guys for mistakes.

    To answer the question of "Do I coach?" Yes. I literally teach for a living and I coach both children and grown adults, have for a decade. All I do is coach/teach. And I treat my children very differently than the adults. It's why the question is ultimately irrelevant because unless you coach NHL then we are still on the same level. Would I sit a kid down? Sure. But coaching kids IS teaching. Coaching professional NHL players isn't teaching as much as it's managing. Its a completely different environment.

    Frankly, it's old school ******** that fans dig but hurts the team. I hate seeing it. The Flyers hurt themselves on Saturday and got lucky to get out of it. Sitting Patrick for (insert bad player here) will further shoot holes in feet. Continue to keep better players out of the lineup for bad players is how you lose important points you need. It's a cop out coaching move from a leader who can't be any more creative than "IDK you like sit and watch". Especially 9 games into a season when everyone should understand the small sample size we're dealing with. If we're sitting 25 games into a season and there's a significant dip in his play, then we can talk about sitting because there's far more going on there than "He's just not (insert X)". But sitting Koneceny and playing Morin for 5 minutes in a back-to-back against the Islanders was stupid. Not only did it log extra minutes for everyone eating up the time (on a back to back), it took talent out of the game for lack of talent, and it was against a team the Flyers have struggled to gain offense against.

    They got lucky to walk away with 2 points. Sitting Koneceny made it that much harder. And I doubt it will make any impact on a veteran of the NHL like Travis Koneceny heading forward. He's a good player and good players will be good players over long sample sizes.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 02-01-2021 at 05:58 PM.

  6. #126
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    Jun 2005
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    1,743
    In my opinion it just alienates a player and when it's time for a new contract they might look outside the organization rather than put up with being benched.

  7. #127
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    He played just as hard as he ever did. Anything attributed to that game off is pure conjecture and it's why it's stupid. I would bet heavy that he played just as hard as prior. Or if he had been disciplined in a way that doesnt take talent off the ice. Hell, I'd argue you create an environment of fear and hesitation to act when you start sitting guys for mistakes.

    To answer the question of "Do I coach?" Yes. I literally teach for a living and I coach both children and grown adults, have for a decade. All I do is coach/teach. And I treat my children very differently than the adults. It's why the question is ultimately irrelevant because unless you coach NHL then we are still on the same level. Would I sit a kid down? Sure. But coaching kids IS teaching. Coaching professional NHL players isn't teaching as much as it's managing. Its a completely different environment.

    Frankly, it's old school ******** that fans dig but hurts the team. I hate seeing it. The Flyers hurt themselves on Saturday and got lucky to get out of it. Sitting Patrick for (insert bad player here) will further shoot holes in feet. Continue to keep better players out of the lineup for bad players is how you lose important points you need. It's a cop out coaching move from a leader who can't be any more creative than "IDK you like sit and watch". Especially 9 games into a season when everyone should understand the small sample size we're dealing with. If we're sitting 25 games into a season and there's a significant dip in his play, then we can talk about sitting because there's far more going on there than "He's just not (insert X)". But sitting Koneceny and playing Morin for 5 minutes in a back-to-back against the Islanders was stupid. Not only did it log extra minutes for everyone eating up the time (on a back to back), it took talent out of the game for lack of talent, and it was against a team the Flyers have struggled to gain offense against.

    They got lucky to walk away with 2 points. Sitting Koneceny made it that much harder. And I doubt it will make any impact on a veteran of the NHL like Travis Koneceny heading forward. He's a good player and good players will be good players over long sample sizes.
    I kind of agree with you, but there are some instances where it helps to sit a game and watch from the press box. Take a look at what things are going on from a different perspective. Do I like the "bench TK to fire him up" or "bench TK because he played a lazy couple shifts"? No, I would prefer you bench him a few shifts during that game or move him to a lower line if he's having an off night. That fires you up a little (knowing this from previous experience) and when you get placed back on your top line you become more aware of how much different your role is.

    The other situation(s) I don't mind benching for games is if you're actually bringing in a more talented player or someone they feel is playing better. That's not going to be the case often with TK because there are other players that are worse off on the team that could be benched. If TK was benched due to performance, Braun should be benched every other night. I don't know how you could have him in the lineup Wednesday with him playing as bad as he has for about 8 of the last 9 periods of hockey. On top of that, he literally picked the dumbest time to try to hold the blue line and then failed to get back in time to defend (not as badly as Jake completely leaving Barzal open in the slot, but the situation started with his idiotic decision in a one goal game).

    Really on what you were saying though, I agree for the most part.

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