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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    No one is disagreeing that we need better shooting and less Payton. Just that RJ shouldn't be getting a huge pass because he's playing with Payton. RJ is a disappointment so far, period.
    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Ok - Payton is the spacing culprit, and RJ is the guy falling well short of expectations.
    So we've finally gotten to the point I made hours ago that two things can be true at once: (1) RJ needs to be better and (2) it does RJ no favors to play with so little spacing.

  2. #257
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    GT12: Brooklyn (6-6) @ the Mecca w/ Most Deified Knicks (5-6): Battle of New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    If that's the case, then why can't it also be true for RJ? That he'd be better off surrounded by shooters?
    No because RJ can’t consistently create off the dribble and has no shot to keep the defense honest. Even if he’s surrounded by 4 shooters, they will still dare him to take outside shots.

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Serious question, what’s the difference between Knox’s rookie season and RJ’s? Both were inefficient, but Knox showed he could at least shoot high volume 3s at a solid % for a rookie at the NBA level.

    Yet we basically gave up on Knox last season and barely played him while RJ got a ton of minutes and is continuing to do so. Knox is shooting lights out right now and deserves to play more.
    If shooting was the only thing that one does in an NBA game, then sure.

    But also, I think it was premature to give up on Knox last year and he should absolutely be getting more playing time right now as one of our best shooters.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Hate to burst everyone's bubble here, but the return that you're getting in a trade for Randle, on one hand, and RJ, on the other, would actually be very similar. Teams are going to factor in age, potential, contract situation, fit in a modern offense, which all weigh heavily in favor of RJ.

    I think you could make a good argument that the return we get in a trade for RJ would actually be better than the return from trading Randle.
    So what contract situation? he is 19m the rest of this year, and under 20m locked in all of next year then can sign with the team for his next contract, I'm not sure it gets better than that for both the player and the team to get a good look at each other for fit? In fact the team would only be liable for 4mil in cap if it didnt' work out this year.

    I don't see a contract issue at all?

    As far as the one missed layup, watch closer, you've missed a lot in my opinion, you want to shot chart?

    funny I'm still an RJ advocate, but I'm not blind either. Read his body language, he's frustrated with himself, and the best part of this I feel is RJ himself knows that this is on him, and that is what the key to turning it around is.

    Kids 20 and played in a shorten season, he should be just fine.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    So we've finally gotten to the point I made hours ago that two things can be true at once: (1) RJ needs to be better and (2) it does RJ no favors to play with so little spacing.
    I agreed with you then and I agree with you now. Where we disagree is which of those is more important to the Knicks now and for our future. I think it's #1.

  6. #261
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    I’d try to deal Randle to Minnesota for their 2021 first. I’m sure they’d want to put protection on it but I feel like he potentially fits well there, D-Lo-Beasley-Ant-Randle-KAT.

    We get their 2021 first, and the reason to try to do this now is its early in the season and maybe Minnesota thinks it could help them with a playoff push.

    Then we can try:

    Quick-Frank-RJ-Knox-Mitch
    Rivers-Burks-Bullock-Obi-Noel

    Sure that’s basically a tank rotation but the ball would move and we’d be stretching our floor instead of shrinking it every night. Would be way more fun imo and we’d have 3 first rounders in this draft.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    No because RJ can’t consistently create off the dribble and has no shot to keep the defense honest. Even if he’s surrounded by 4 shooters, they will still dare him to take outside shots.
    I'm reluctant to engage with you on this, because your RJ opinions are just out there.

    I'll say one thing. RJ has shown the ability to get to the rim at will even with players sagging off him. What he does at the rim is another story - but I think it would be helpful if he had to score against one player at the rim, rather than two or three (which is often the case). He has also shown some improvement in his mid-range jumper. So I strongly disagree putting shooters around him wouldn't help at all.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    I agreed with you then and I agree with you now. Where we disagree is which of those is more important to the Knicks now and for our future. I think it's #1.
    I don't necessarily disagree. I think my issue is with people not seeing how helping out with issue #2 might result in helping with #1.

    (No bathroom puns intended).

  9. #264
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    Knox is showing a nice stroke again, now it needs to continue, we've seen that done that before and then it left him, I'm thinking he's got a green light, confidence and will shoot a decent percentage.

    My concern is he is still one of the worst defenders in the league, and is IQ is not high not sure those are fixable and it's a bit concerning. I know some will disagree and that's okay that is why we all have opinions, but I would love to see more than just a shot from this kid.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    I’d try to deal Randle to Minnesota for their 2021 first. I’m sure they’d want to put protection on it but I feel like he potentially fits well there, D-Lo-Beasley-Ant-Randle-KAT.

    We get their 2021 first, and the reason to try to do this now is its early in the season and maybe Minnesota thinks it could help them with a playoff push.

    Then we can try:

    Quick-Frank-RJ-Knox-Mitch
    Rivers-Burks-Bullock-Obi-Noel

    Sure that’s basically a tank rotation but the ball would move and we’d be stretching our floor instead of shrinking it every night. Would be way more fun imo and we’d have 3 first rounders in this draft.
    The Warriors have Minnesota's 2021 1st...

  11. #266
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    GT12: Brooklyn (6-6) @ the Mecca w/ Most Deified Knicks (5-6): Battle of New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    If shooting was the only thing that one does in an NBA game, then sure.

    But also, I think it was premature to give up on Knox last year and he should absolutely be getting more playing time right now as one of our best shooters.
    Honestly shooting is most important now in the NBA. I think it’s time to realize that. Knox has more size, athleticism, and way more shooting than RJ with improving defense (still not great).

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    The Warriors have Minnesota's 2021 1st...
    And neither the Wolves or Warriors would do that deal anyway. That is a premium lottery pick.

  13. #268
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    GT12: Brooklyn (6-6) @ the Mecca w/ Most Deified Knicks (5-6): Battle of New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    The spacing issues (at least for the starting lineup) are as a result of Payton, Barrett, Randle, and Mitch. All of them. Now, which one of those players isn't like the rest? Which one has no future here? And on the flip side, which player is the most important to our future out of those 4?

    That's why Payton (and not RJ) gets the majority of the flak for spacing.
    Mitch is an interior player and a rim runner. Randle shoots, drives, and creates for others better then any of the other 3. Mitch and Randle aren’t floor spacers but you could get away with them if your “perimeter players” can shoot. 1 through 3 have to be able to shoot. 4 and 5 give you great options if they can (one of them needs to shoot some) but 1-3 almost always to have to be able to shoot unless they fly with the ball and you have better shooting bigs. You are right Payton won’t be here. Barrett might. That’s why I’m more concerned with him. Hiding it won’t work


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  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    I’d try to deal Randle to Minnesota for their 2021 first. I’m sure they’d want to put protection on it but I feel like he potentially fits well there, D-Lo-Beasley-Ant-Randle-KAT.

    We get their 2021 first, and the reason to try to do this now is its early in the season and maybe Minnesota thinks it could help them with a playoff push.

    Then we can try:

    Quick-Frank-RJ-Knox-Mitch
    Rivers-Burks-Bullock-Obi-Noel

    Sure that’s basically a tank rotation but the ball would move and we’d be stretching our floor instead of shrinking it every night. Would be way more fun imo and we’d have 3 first rounders in this draft.
    Warriors have their pick
    Spurs Sim league
    2 time Champion 653-331

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Honestly shooting is most important now in the NBA. I think it’s time to realize that. Knox has more size, athleticism, and way more shooting than RJ with improving defense (still not great).
    shooting doesnt mean much if u cant get your shot off. Knox is bad at creating right now. you need playmakers to set up shooters. which is what we hope RJ becomes.

    Butler can't shoot but he's much more important to MIA than shooters like Herro and DUncan.

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