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  1. #2266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    Its seriously starting to look like baring some type of drastic trade up or some star actually becoming available that Nick Foles will be our QB.... Which is soo unsexy. And despite how much some hate Mitch i surely don't see Alex Smith or Mac Jones/Trey Lance being upgrades over Mitch.

    Right now I would try to trade our First for Orlando Brown Jr if thats the case. The OL need help if Foles will be the guy. And use whatever cap space we can clear on a RT unless you think leno can play there ( have seen some debate on here if he can or not) and potentially a veteran Guard/C

    Make this teams OL be a strength and run the ball. Make it so the team rellies on D and a Run game.
    Leno really isn't the problem IMO. If the interior play is decent, he is above average. Really don't think the line is far off. With Daniels coming back, our guards are set and above average. Our center future looks solid, but I'd bring in competition. If we could find a solid RT we would be good. Leno is already solid and you can always chip or hold a TE on the blindside.

  2. #2267
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  3. #2268
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds637 View Post
    Leno really isn't the problem IMO. If the interior play is decent, he is above average. Really don't think the line is far off. With Daniels coming back, our guards are set and above average. Our center future looks solid, but I'd bring in competition. If we could find a solid RT we would be good. Leno is already solid and you can always chip or hold a TE on the blindside.
    Do you pass on Orlando Brown for Leno though?

  4. #2269
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    Massie needs to go first, Leno is probably ok for another year.
    1985 Bears
    2005 White Sox
    2010 Blackhawks
    1991 Bulls

    1981 Sting

  5. #2270
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    Meh, that presser is a whole lot of nothing, vomit really. Pace isn't saying anything and the beat writers are too soft with him. Turned it off after 5 minutes.

  6. #2271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    Do you pass on Orlando Brown for Leno though?
    Without having watched or seen deep film on both guys, yes. PFF doesn't really value Brown as highly better (he got a 78 grade to Leno's 74). I'm sure Brown is the higher ceiling guy going forward cause he was doing that his first year at the position, but I think it's also possible he regresses, or just doesn't turn out to be a significantly better player at all.

    If we do get him, I prefer we cut Massie and move Leno to RT, but even that plan has its warts since it's still moving Leno to a new position. We'll also be moving a guard to the right side next year, so it's a lot of moving parts and I'm not crazy about the idea of it. But that's just me. There's probably better fits for Brown.

    Besides, it sure sounds like we'll be trading/trading up for a QB anyway, so who knows if we'll even have our first round pick this year?

  7. #2272
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicagofan08 View Post
    Meh, that presser is a whole lot of nothing, vomit really. Pace isn't saying anything and the beat writers are too soft with him. Turned it off after 5 minutes.
    It's the same as any presser for any team, and regardless of how much beat writers press him, he isn't gonna give any more information than he would have otherwise. He has no reason to.

    Stop having expectations for press conferences. They are, intentionally, always vague.

  8. #2273
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    It's the same as any presser for any team, and regardless of how much beat writers press him, he isn't gonna give any more information than he would have otherwise. He has no reason to.

    Stop having expectations for press conferences. They are, intentionally, always vague.
    Right, what do people think they are going to do in a presser? Tell opposing franchises their plans, and let Free Agents know they have all the leverage lol. That's why I never watch a presser. Nothing you can get from one that you haven't already hear about on the internet

  9. #2274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    Do you pass on Orlando Brown for Leno though?
    Depending on the cost, yes.

    I don't want to pay a 1st round premium for a guy who hasn't proven to be better than what we have. A guy who slipped so far in the draft because he wasn't committed. A guy who the Ravens don't believe is a franchise left tackle enough to supplant who they have.

    Brown doesn't grade higher than Leno, and he's been on the right (easier) side.

    He's 24. We'd be banking on him growing up and being committed and engaged to living near his potential., when the only time he's really shown he's willing to do that is around contract extension time.

    Why do you think he's all the sudden saying I'm a left tackle? It's because the money on the left side is millions higher.

    Trading for Brown when we have so many holes doesn't really make sense to me when we already have a solid, proven option for minimal LT money.

  10. #2275
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds637 View Post
    Depending on the cost, yes.

    I don't want to pay a 1st round premium for a guy who hasn't proven to be better than what we have. A guy who slipped so far in the draft because he wasn't committed. A guy who the Ravens don't believe is a franchise left tackle enough to supplant who they have.

    Brown doesn't grade higher than Leno, and he's been on the right (easier) side.

    He's 24. We'd be banking on him growing up and being committed and engaged to living near his potential., when the only time he's really shown he's willing to do that is around contract extension time.

    Why do you think he's all the sudden saying I'm a left tackle? It's because the money on the left side is millions higher.

    Trading for Brown when we have so many holes doesn't really make sense to me when we already have a solid, proven option for minimal LT money.
    He is saying he is a LT because when Ronnie Staley... A former first round pick who is one of the best OTs and was just paid 98 mil.... Got hurt in week 6 he steped in and played well there. He understand the diference between LT and RT money and wants to be paid for the more important job then Being relegated to being a RT.

    As far as why I want him. I think fans here have become blinded by the average OL. No Leno is not horrible. But he also can not do the things Brown can either. You show me a single instance of Leno dominating a defender up front the way Brown does in so many of these clips.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A_U2Xv0xlIA

    People want to fall in love with PFF but the fact is there are so many issues with their grading and it should not be taken as some holy grail of rankings. The fact is I have seen Leno Be physically dominated up front far too often. Miss blocks far too often. You can tell me PFF values him but to me I value a LT who doesnt play like a panzie and I just don't see Leno

    I look at brown and I see a 24 YO Franchise Caliber LT. Maybe you don't but we could very well be spending a First on an OT anyway. I just think you could get Brown (who solves your LT) and move Leno over to RT. Some have argued he has not been good there but I don't recall him on the right side myself which is why i asked earlier.

    You can tell me that leno is fine. Im just saying Fine players is one of the reason this OL isnt very good. We just don't have anyone at all who can impose his will and Brown Can and does.

  11. #2276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    He is saying he is a LT because when Ronnie Staley... A former first round pick who is one of the best OTs and was just paid 98 mil.... Got hurt in week 6 he steped in and played well there. He understand the diference between LT and RT money and wants to be paid for the more important job then Being relegated to being a RT.

    As far as why I want him. I think fans here have become blinded by the average OL. No Leno is not horrible. But he also can not do the things Brown can either. You show me a single instance of Leno dominating a defender up front the way Brown does in so many of these clips.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A_U2Xv0xlIA

    People want to fall in love with PFF but the fact is there are so many issues with their grading and it should not be taken as some holy grail of rankings. The fact is I have seen Leno Be physically dominated up front far too often. Miss blocks far too often. You can tell me PFF values him but to me I value a LT who doesnt play like a panzie and I just don't see Leno

    I look at brown and I see a 24 YO Franchise Caliber LT. Maybe you don't but we could very well be spending a First on an OT anyway. I just think you could get Brown (who solves your LT) and move Leno over to RT. Some have argued he has not been good there but I don't recall him on the right side myself which is why i asked earlier.

    You can tell me that leno is fine. Im just saying Fine players is one of the reason this OL isnt very good. We just don't have anyone at all who can impose his will and Brown Can and does.
    It's not falling in love with PFF, it's that PFF grade, while flawed, is a much better objective evaluator of a player than your impartial eyes, which have probably watched much more Charles Leno than Orlando Brown. There's also the fact that a sizable portion of the fanbase have tried to blame Leno and anyone else they can for Mitch's failures, so any bad play he makes is gonna get noticed and over-fixated on a lot more. Anyway, a clip of Brown's best plays of his career doesn't make for very good foundation for why he's better. You could show the top 20 plays of Anthony Miller's career with the argument he's one of the best and most talented receivers in the league.

    And just saying he gets physically dominated at times doesn't tell you the whole picture. Yes, one of Leno's weaknesses is that he's undersized, and at times, is vulnerable to the bull rush from stronger edge rushers. All that said, he consistently does above average in win rate and PFF grade. It doesn't mean he doesn't make up for his weaknesses in other ways, or do other things very well.

    I think Brown has a higher upside than Leno at this point in his career, but it's certainly debatable whether or not the upgrade from Leno to Brown is worth it, or more optimal than making moves at other areas of the offensive line instead.
    Last edited by La_bibbers; Yesterday at 07:53 PM.

  12. #2277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    He is saying he is a LT because when Ronnie Staley... A former first round pick who is one of the best OTs and was just paid 98 mil.... Got hurt in week 6 he steped in and played well there. He understand the diference between LT and RT money and wants to be paid for the more important job then Being relegated to being a RT.

    As far as why I want him. I think fans here have become blinded by the average OL. No Leno is not horrible. But he also can not do the things Brown can either. You show me a single instance of Leno dominating a defender up front the way Brown does in so many of these clips.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A_U2Xv0xlIA

    People want to fall in love with PFF but the fact is there are so many issues with their grading and it should not be taken as some holy grail of rankings. The fact is I have seen Leno Be physically dominated up front far too often. Miss blocks far too often. You can tell me PFF values him but to me I value a LT who doesnt play like a panzie and I just don't see Leno

    I look at brown and I see a 24 YO Franchise Caliber LT. Maybe you don't but we could very well be spending a First on an OT anyway. I just think you could get Brown (who solves your LT) and move Leno over to RT. Some have argued he has not been good there but I don't recall him on the right side myself which is why i asked earlier.

    You can tell me that leno is fine. Im just saying Fine players is one of the reason this OL isnt very good. We just don't have anyone at all who can impose his will and Brown Can and does.
    There were very few instances in that video of him dominating. It showed his athleticism in those pulls, but seriously, that wasn't a dominating video if that was the intent. He did what was expected, and what Leno can do. If that clip was to show anything special, it didn't, and if those are his to 20 blocks, I'm just not impressed.

    I don't view PFF as the end all be all. But you're acting like because you've seen Leno get dominated, he's not as good. Have you watched every Ravens game like you have the Bears? Have you seen every snap of Brown, or is this just the grass is greener?

    Blocking for Jackson is completely different than blocking for Trubisky and the pocket passers in between.

    I agree, I'd rather have Brown just because potential and age. Love to solidify that position for 10 years, and he just might.

    But Leno is 29 and solid. This isn't my top priority. To spend our 1st round pick to potentially upgrade a spot we are average at worst at right now, but likely above average at, is bad usage of assets.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_lzl3wLm1U

    Leno is good, cheap, and under control. If you solidify the right side, you can chip and have a TE on the left when we play elite DEs.

    edit...
    There's no reason for this Bears team to trade a 1st round pick and then pay likely around 20 million a year to extend the guy when the in house option is still good. We're already in cap hell.
    It's so much easier to block for Lamar Jackson when the ends need to be aware of their containment at all times.
    Last edited by ds637; Yesterday at 08:02 PM.

  13. #2278
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    If the question is Leno and a 1st or Brown, I will go option A.

    Leno does not translate to the RT well. He is undersized and lacks the power. Massie is far worse than Leno. CHI could use their 1 or 2 and try to replace Massie and the OL would be better off IMO.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #2279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach100 View Post
    If the question is Leno and a 1st or Brown, I will go option A.

    Leno does not translate to the RT well. He is undersized and lacks the power. Massie is far worse than Leno. CHI could use their 1 or 2 and try to replace Massie and the OL would be better off IMO.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is my thinking exactly. Massie is worse and easier to cut loose. Leno is the LT this year, like it or not. He's a fine, durable LT that doesn't hurt you. Upgrade the rest of the line and find a goddamn QB. Anything else is gonna make it moot anyway.

  15. #2280
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    I'm just ready for FA and the draft to start.

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