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  1. #1321
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Tannehill has also been a top 10 qb over the last 2 years but I'd bet a lot of money Stafford and Ryan are much bigger difference makers than both Carr and Tannehill, given the same situation.

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    I'd take that bet. I think Carr is better than both those guys. Tanneyhill, ehmmm, don't think so, just in a good system for him.

  2. #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-his-next-move



    and remind me what did the Bengles get for a Retired Carson Palmer after Waiting a year? a 1st and 2nd round pick? Yea they really ****ed that up. Thats more than most of you would have been willing to trade for Stafford at the same age. And Stafford is a better QB too.

    Give up the Argument bro. at this point your making a fool out of yourself by simply sitting here saying all I am saying is He is under contract. I am saying it gives them some control despite the fact you want to claim they have no leverage.
    The Bengals really got lucky in that situation. The Raiders lost their starter and were desperate. Plus, Dalton looked good enough that there was no reason to continue playing hardball when the deal came up. They would have gotten more in the offseason with more teams involved. They definitely ****ed that up. Not only could they have gotten more, it was an awful look for their organization.
    Definitely would have paid more than that for Stafford.

    I don't get how the Texans have leverage in this situation either. They have control. With every day they wait, with every team that figures out their QB situation before Watson is dealt, they lose leverage on the market. They lose respect of FA's and players, hurting them in other negotiations. Having a QB situation like this with a star player is going to affect everything they do this offseason, not for the better. It affects their new coach planning for the season, it's just awful for them.

  3. #1323
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  4. #1324
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Tannehill has also been a top 10 qb over the last 2 years but I'd bet a lot of money Stafford and Ryan are much bigger difference makers than both Carr and Tannehill, given the same situation.

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    Tannehill is a heck of an outlier here. As we've discussed previously though, Carr's career trajectory to me looks much more like Dak Prescott's than Tannehill's. Even earlier in his career there's more consistent high level play than there was with Tannehill (who, to be fair, was stuck on some miserably bad Dolphins teams).

    I'd take Stafford over Carr too, as his career has been more stable (but I don't think it's that big of a difference). In a vacuum, I'd expect Ryan to be the better player too in the short-term. His contract is much heftier however.

    That said, there's very little evidence to support the idea that Carr isn't quite good in his own right. At his price tag, we could easily bring back A-Rob and hopefully address other needs as well and field a competitive team for at least a couple years. Again, it's that or bet on Foles and/or a non-Fields/Lawrence/Wilson rookie.

  5. #1325
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  6. #1326
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    Bears are gonna end up with minshew lol

  7. #1327
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Tannehill is a heck of an outlier here. As we've discussed previously though, Carr's career trajectory to me looks much more like Dak Prescott's than Tannehill's. Even earlier in his career there's more consistent high level play than there was with Tannehill (who, to be fair, was stuck on some miserably bad Dolphins teams).

    I'd take Stafford over Carr too, as his career has been more stable (but I don't think it's that big of a difference). In a vacuum, I'd expect Ryan to be the better player too in the short-term. His contract is much heftier however.

    That said, there's very little evidence to support the idea that Carr isn't quite good in his own right. At his price tag, we could easily bring back A-Rob and hopefully address other needs as well and field a competitive team for at least a couple years. Again, it's that or bet on Foles and/or a non-Fields/Lawrence/Wilson rookie.
    I definitely agree that Tanny is an outlier. If Carr is more like Dak than the latter we would be crazy not to want him.

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  8. #1328
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Bears are gonna end up with minshew lol
    This is an unpopular opinion but I want Watson/Dak/Carr/Ryan

    Then I really don't care.

    Go big with upside with Winston/Wentz/Darnold/Tua.


    I know people are horrified by those names but **** it [emoji28]

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  9. #1329
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post

    Go big with upside with Winston/Wentz/Darnold/Tua.


    I know people are horrified by those names but **** it [emoji28]
    Unlike Winston, Wentz and Darnold, I still believe in Tua. If Miami is stupid enough to sell Tua after a bad rookie year, while coming off injury, then take advantage. I still Tua will become a top notch QB.
    Screw sabermetics.

  10. #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefire View Post
    Unlike Winston, Wentz and Darnold, I still believe in Tua. If Miami is stupid enough to sell Tua after a bad rookie year, while coming off injury, then take advantage. I still Tua will become a top notch QB.
    I haven't lost faith in Tua either honestly

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  11. #1331
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    You're looking at it the wrong way. The Texans need Watson more than Watson needs the Texans.

    It isn't about the money.

    No matter what the compensation given for Watson, they've already ****ed it up.

    The longer they wait, the less they'll get. Its that simple. Even if they still end up getting a couple firsts , a couple seconds , and more- by letting it get to the point where Watson has to cut himself off from the team, they have lost the ultimate leverage in trades.
    What makes you say they will get less if they wait. You think people want want Watson just as much this year as next? I dont deny at this point it seems like the best thing to do for both parties is to part ways. But that does not mean it happens either. Thats my only point. And if you want to argue that they will get less because of waiting I just dont buy it. Whether they trade him now or not.... Somebody is going to pay a Kings Ransom for Watson. Maybe they could get more if they do it now? Maybe They get more though by not caving so easily either. Because This whole debate spawns off the Notion that the Texans have no leverage and have to take whatever somebody offers. And once again I reiterate that is just not true. They can hold him. They can force him to sit. And at the end of the day They will probably have similar offers as they do this year next year.


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  12. #1332
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    This is an unpopular opinion but I want Watson/Dak/Carr/Ryan

    Then I really don't care.

    Go big with upside with Winston/Wentz/Darnold/Tua.


    I know people are horrified by those names but **** it [emoji28]
    I don't think they get any of the trade candidates so I'm all for giving Winston a look, wanted him last year, bit intrigued if he learned watching Brees and if the eye surgery makes a difference.

    Carry 3 QBs. Sign Dalton as his backup just in case. Draft someone. I can't believe I think our most realistic and best option is the same as I did last year...

  13. #1333
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    I donít think you understand the difference between leverage and control for this argument as youíre using them interchangeably.

    They control Watson. He is under contract.

    Watson has all of leverage in a trade so long as he is willing to sit out. He has a NTC. He will eat cap space for Houston throughout FA and the draft. They are not in a position to play this off-season poorly, and the longer they hold Watson, the worse their situation. He is the party that gets to approve his move from Houston.

    If Houston wants to sit on their asset, thatís their prerogative. But they donít get to set the market value for DeShaun. Theyíve demonstrated repeatedly a lack of willingness to move him in a hot market. They lose out on potential replacements and compensation the longer they wait. Their only leverage is the threat of fines if DeShaun sits out. And for a guy thatís as pissed off as he is and will make back those fines hand over fist when heís moved, thatís essentially zero leverage.

    Youíre acting like Houston is in a position to play this market. They arenít. Contracts are meaningless if a guy is going to sit.

    Now, go back to spelling **** horribly and creating asinine 4-team trades.
    LOL. OK bro. Your arguing semantics in terms of trying to pit control vs leverage. its actually sad that you think thats the way to go to defend your point. Having 5+ years of control is a way to leverage Watson. You can sit here and spit **** out of your mouth and claim Watson has nothing to loose but do you have any idea how much money he would be set to loose should he sit out? his contract would not progress. He becomes a FA one year later. And he would be making no money this year. Do the ****ing math man He isnt loosing out on 15 mil.... he is loosing out on whatever his next contract extension is worth which will likely be well over 40... maybe even 50 mil. Thats what holding out a year does. And imagine if they do the same for 2 consecutive years? Its easy for a Fan to say he doesnt need the money but any human being in history would look at that and say WTF am I doing.

    And For all the talk of his NTC What realistically happens if they hold Watson and he sits? How many years do you really think Watson would hold out for? At some point this notion of leverage does shift because of "CONTROL" DO you really think Watson can afford to hold out for 2 consecutive years? What about 3? And his NTC.... His no Trade Clause Wont mean **** at that point because he would be so fed up and desperate to move The Texans can cost him MILLIONS OF DOLLARS by refusing to trade him. They can tell him to either Accept the trade for Sit for another year. These are all methods of control but the fact is What is a NO TRADE CLAUSE other than Control of where you end up? This notion that one can be leverage and the other isnt is asinine man.

    But Sure... the Texans Have Zero Leverage and the longer they wait the worse it gets. Honestly the way I look at it the Longer they wait the more the power shifts back to the Texans because the fact remains Watson can not just sit his entire career out if he doesn't get what he wants.

    And Please... Dont Bother responding to this bro. Your points are ridiculous and You basically agree with my point in this post that the Texans Do have some Amount of Leverage in the situation. You can substitute the word for Control all you want. But it does not make you look like any less of a fool.

    And Once again. I think end of the way yes Watson gets traded. But This Notion you want to stick with that the Texans Have to or that They loose leverage is just words. The Fact is Houston is going to get a haul for Watson if it was this year or next. The Same way that holding onto Palmer didnt really affect the Bengles that much either. Sure those picks could have been useful a year earlier. But its not as if The team failed to get a haul back anyway.

    Control = Leverage at the end of the day. Whether or not you seem to think so or not.

    P.S. Being a Grammar Nazi and trying to use that as a Burn tells me your argument has no backbone so you have to Go with that. Its pathetic. You can criticize my trade proposal but I would love to know why exactly? Which part or are you afraid that your wrong? its crazy how you call me out for saying Watson will never be worth 4 first round picks and yet for some reason When the trade gets him that its not enough. Your a ****ing argumentative hypocrite who cant actually support the words that come out of his mouth with actual logic.
    Last edited by Kyben36; 02-04-2021 at 01:37 AM.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

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  14. #1334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach100 View Post
    This is all about blinking first. Palmer is telling Watson to stand his ground because Cincy blinked. I bet Palmer would be singing a totally different story if Cincy never dealt him.

    The only way HOU wins in this is if they move him now and get a maximum return or they are willing to sit on him for 4 of his prime years as a pro in hopes that he comes back and plays for them. I think HOU wins in that because it puts the responsibility on Watson to live up to his part of the contract. A lot of blue collar fans go to a job the hate for bosses that suck and watching Watson piss away 4 years and millions because he doesnít like ownership will probably sour a fair amount of fans.

    That said, I find it hard to believe that HOU has the stones to do that. And since they donít, the best idea is to trade Watson now. I still think JAC makes the most sense. Urban gets a QB for his system that helps turn that team around quickly. Also, Jacksonville isnít too far from Clemson, where Watson is a legend. JAC also has the Rams 1st (#25) and 4th this year, so they wouldnít lose the ability to draft young guys. Lastly, JAC has one of the best cap situations for 2021, so adding Watson shouldnít be a financial issue.

    HOU gets Lawrence to hit the reset button with, along with letís say JAC 2nd this year and a first next year (minimum). That would be a pretty good way to start a rebuild as it replaces the 1st and 2nd round picks HOU doesnít have this year due to earlier trades, plus adds some more picks for next year, when they already have 9 picks.


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    This is basically 100% my point. There is this option for Houston... and I think anyone who denies that as an option also does not realize or comprehend what type desperation you go to for a QB like Watson when you have him. I truly expect them to trade him but Would I be surprised if they Sat on him for a year and threatened to do the same again next offseason to see what Watson would do? Could Watson really hand over 2 years of his Career and sit. Sure... But it also seems unlikely Especially considering IMO the longer they wait the more the power shifts . I think anyone in here realizes that any amount of picks would not replace Watson. So why would you not take that chance. People want to talk about his value dipping? How much? You really think next offseason people will not be begging to have Watson. And if it does dip does that not lower the chances that HOuston takes a trade and thus further **** Watson.

    I think this is a completely different story has he never of signed an extension with Houston. But the fact that they can just sit here and Tell him you have to come back gives them some power. And to me... that NTC means very little to me. Basically if you find a deal you like you tell Watson to take this or we don't trade you and you can sit. There is power on both sides. This whole debate started over the notion that some people think that Watson holds all the cards and it just isn't true. This could get very ugly at the end of the day.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  15. #1335
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    This is an unpopular opinion but I want Watson/Dak/Carr/Ryan

    Then I really don't care.

    Go big with upside with Winston/Wentz/Darnold/Tua.


    I know people are horrified by those names but **** it [emoji28]
    Not sure I'd buy Wentz as an upside guy. He's not that young, injury prone, and apparently not a great locker room guy.

    The rest I agree with, though I wouldn't want Jameis. Darnold needs the right coach...I doubt that's Nagy. Tua is tough to judge, but I was never that high on him to begin with... still way too early to give up on him though.

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