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  1. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    I see, though it would seem you would fall under agnostic more so than atheist, since you are open for there to be a god. Instead of a straight denial of one.
    Well he did refer to himself as Allah, and the thing is Arabic is far older than Islam, and Saudi Arabia and Mecca and Medina exclusively were polytheistic before Islam. So It would've made no sense to use the word "Allah" for the several gods they had. Which is why Muhammed came up with Allah when he came up with Islam.
    I refer to myself as an agnostic atheist. I cannot know one way or the other but until sufficient evidence is presented, I assume there is no God. But as you said, I do remain open to the possibility.

    No, since no ins has never seen or heard ďAllah, it is literally (yes, literally) impossible for ďAllahĒ to have called himself anything. For all you know the dudeís rightful name is Frank but everyone insists on calling him ďAllah.Ē

    Thing is, YOU DONT KNOW. YOU BELIEVE YOU KNOW. But thatís very different, isnít it?

    Be honestÖ.
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 07-19-2021 at 08:37 PM.

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    I refer to myself as an agnostic atheist. I cannot know one way or the other but until sufficient evidence is presented, I assume there is no God. But as you said, I do remain open to the possibility.

    No, since no ins has never seen or heard ďAllah, it is literally (yes, literally) impossible for ďAllahĒ to have called himself anything. For all you know the dudeís rightful name is Frank but everyone insists on calling him ďAllah.Ē

    Thing is, YOU DONT KNOW. YOU BELIEVE YOU KNOW. But thatís very different, isnít it?

    Be honestÖ.
    Gotcha
    Well to be clear, Muhammed was the one who said that he was Allah, since it was Muhammed and Muhammed only who had any kind of "revelations". So that's the only name of the Muslim god we can go with. With that knowledge we can say that "Allah" is not the same god as the Judeo-Christian god.
    I'm not quite sure what you're going after with the last sentence. Is it about the "Allah" situation or questioning me about the belief in a god?

  3. #843
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    guys, Allah is not necessarily a different God just because of the name....that's just an Arabic translation meaning 'the God' while Christian writings were derived from Hebrew
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Gotcha
    Well to be clear, Muhammed was the one who said that he was Allah, since it was Muhammed and Muhammed only who had any kind of "revelations". So that's the only name of the Muslim god we can go with. With that knowledge we can say that "Allah" is not the same god as the Judeo-Christian god.
    I'm not quite sure what you're going after with the last sentence. Is it about the "Allah" situation or questioning me about the belief in a god?
    Mohammed said he was Allah because Mohammed spoke Arabic and the Arabic word for God is Allah.

    The Quran mentions Psalms and the Gospels and mentions God spoke through Moses and Jesus as prophets similar to how he did for Mohammed.

    If you read the Quran there is no ambiguity that they believe it's the same God.

  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Gotcha
    Well to be clear, Muhammed was the one who said that he was Allah, since it was Muhammed and Muhammed only who had any kind of "revelations". So that's the only name of the Muslim god we can go with. With that knowledge we can say that "Allah" is not the same god as the Judeo-Christian god.
    I'm not quite sure what you're going after with the last sentence. Is it about the "Allah" situation or questioning me about the belief in a god?
    I was going for getting you to admit thereís a difference between what you know versus what you believe.

    You donít even, canít even, know Allah exists so how can you know what he calls himself. But since he is written about in a book itís quite obvious what others call him. They call him ďAllah. And of course there are many people alive today who call him that. So thatís why Iím
    Saying we should just stick with what people call Him.

  6. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Once again, you're both tweaking your narrative to fit your beliefs and have the right to say I am doing the same. The very definition of the word evidence includes whether facts or information fit a belief. We're not IN a court of law....and what YOU view as 'real' evidence is different than what I do.

    This is really pointless. How is it that people who supposedly have a larger 'world view' of things are consistently less open-minded to others' beliefs than those THEY claie have a narrower view because of their religious beliefs. I tell you you have every right to believe as you do, you suggest I have the right to believe as I do....yet still turn around and try and tell me I'm wrong.

    I see evidence of His presence all around me. You don't. Your prerogative. Did I tell you you're wrong? You think attempting to tell me I'M wrong is OK, but if I do the same I'm 'trying to cram religion down your throat' (not saying either of you specifically have said that, but that's what's said)
    Have to say one more thing about this: Youre not basing your beliefs on evidence. Youíre basing your beliefs on your beliefs. Thatís what youíre doing by saying your evidence fits your belief system..

    And thatís fine. Itís just not evidence. Evidence is something that can be demonstrated to others. You canít demonstrate to me that HIS presence is all around you. But you believe it to be true.

    Iím not telling you itís not true. Not at all. Iím just asking you to try to differentiate your beliefs from evidence.
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 07-20-2021 at 08:04 AM.

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Mohammed said he was Allah because Mohammed spoke Arabic and the Arabic word for God is Allah.

    The Quran mentions Psalms and the Gospels and mentions God spoke through Moses and Jesus as prophets similar to how he did for Mohammed.

    If you read the Quran there is no ambiguity that they believe it's the same God.
    The actual name given to the supreme deity is (to me) not relevant, and has little bearing on why I started this thread in the first place.

    Nor does it really matter to me the similar historical roots of the three tradtions as recounted in their ancient and intractable texts (i.e. the Psalms).

    Where I was most curious was in the specific Christian assertion of the singular divinity of Jesus and subsequent trinitarian godhead. To my knowledge, neither of these concepts mesh at all with Jewish or Muslim theology.

    Did the Christian god evolve?

  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    The actual name given to the supreme deity is (to me) not relevant, and has little bearing on why I started this thread in the first place.

    Nor does it really matter to me the similar historical roots of the three tradtions as recounted in their ancient and intractable texts (i.e. the Psalms).

    Where I was most curious was in the specific Christian assertion of the singular divinity of Jesus and subsequent trinitarian godhead. To my knowledge, neither of these concepts mesh at all with Jewish or Muslim theology.

    Did the Christian god evolve?
    God does not evolve.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    The actual name given to the supreme deity is (to me) not relevant, and has little bearing on why I started this thread in the first place.

    Nor does it really matter to me the similar historical roots of the three tradtions as recounted in their ancient and intractable texts (i.e. the Psalms).

    Where I was most curious was in the specific Christian assertion of the singular divinity of Jesus and subsequent trinitarian godhead. To my knowledge, neither of these concepts mesh at all with Jewish or Muslim theology.

    Did the Christian god evolve?
    Well your final question assumes all three beliefs on him are objectively true. I think the reconciliation is that the religions donít believe the same thing about the same God. Not believing the same thing is not the same as not believing itís the same person.

    For example, one person could believe youíre kind and another believe youíre rude. But whatever their belief of you, theyíre both talking about the same person.

  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    God does not evolve.
    Well, how then do you explain the NEW Testament and Jesus saying, in effect, pay no attention to those O.T. Rules? That certainly sounds a lot like an evolved God to me!

  11. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Well, how then do you explain the NEW Testament and Jesus saying, in effect, pay no attention to those O.T. Rules? That certainly sounds a lot like an evolved God to me!

    Jesus said the law remains until fulfilled which Jesus said with his dying breath it is finished.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well your final question assumes all three beliefs on him are objectively true. I think the reconciliation is that the religions donít believe the same thing about the same God. Not believing the same thing is not the same as not believing itís the same person.

    For example, one person could believe youíre kind and another believe youíre rude. But whatever their belief of you, theyíre both talking about the same person.
    I believe I stated this earlier. At what point does it become a different God?
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well your final question assumes all three beliefs on him are objectively true. I think the reconciliation is that the religions donít believe the same thing about the same God. Not believing the same thing is not the same as not believing itís the same person.

    For example, one person could believe youíre kind and another believe youíre rude. But whatever their belief of you, theyíre both talking about the same person.
    I donít buy the analogy that rests on subjective interpretations of someoneís actions (rude vs. kind). We are talking about ontology, specifically regarding the essence of God in light of his relationship to Jesus. If Jesus is God, then thereís a problem. If Jesus is both human and God, then thereís a problem. And if Jesus just a human, then once again thereís a problem.

  14. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    God does not evolve.
    But according the scriptures, he has. For example, killing off the entire planet in a flood, only promising to not do it again. That sounds a lot like evolving to me.

    And even if not god him/herself, the religion has certainly evolved.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Jesus said the law remains until fulfilled which Jesus said with his dying breath it is finished.
    So why donít Christians keep Kosher?

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