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  1. #931
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    So I took the liberty of lifting all the direct passages from the Bible so we could see them, free and unencumbered from the man-made interpretation that was added in the "Top View." What follows are the Biblical passages:


    "For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. … Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them"

    "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."

    "your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb."

    (God) "had set [him] apart before [he] was born."

    "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
    Please note there is not a single reference dictating to a would be mom what she should or should not do with an unwanted pregnancy, either due to it being unplanned, forced (rape), inappropriate, or unhealthy, in which either the baby or mother's life potentially could be at risk.

    Note there are a whole host of issues that are ignored here. Indeed, the entire question of whether the Mom even has the right to end her own pregnancy isn't even addressed. It doesnt even come up in the narrative. You would think if this was such a clear, cut and dry issue, there would be something along the lines of "And the instant you begin to form in the womb, you shall remain untouched by human hands until you are ready to take your first breath." Or words to that effect. Or something like that. But no, nothing.

    Yet somehow, our "Top View" writers still conclude,

    If we believe what the Bible says, we must come to the conclusion that in both physical and spiritual terms, an unborn child is the blueprint for a fully-formed human being.
    Interesting, no?
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  2. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Have you ever look at how those two are not inconsistent?
    I can read it just fine, thank you.

  3. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I can read it just fine, thank you.
    so the answer is no, you've not looked to see how this has been resolved. Thanks.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  4. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    No. It just makes me objective. I can read the text in the Bible without any preconceived opinions of what they may mean. I just read the words as I would any other text.

    But your “spiritualism” kinda makes you want to seek a deeper meaning into the texts than what appears literally. So now Jesus can appear to be against abortion even though he never explicitly says whether he is or isn’t. . Indeed, I submit that if someone is clever enough, they can take ambiguous passages in the Bible and make them say what ever they want them to, by adding a “nice top level view” to “explain” to the rest of us what it really means.
    No, it means you can't understand spiritual things. Which makes sense really. If you don't have a proclivity to math you can't understand science as well as others who do. Same thing with the Bible. You cannot discern.

    I do hope you want to take a deeper look to see if what the Bible says is true is just that...true.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  5. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    So I took the liberty of lifting all the direct passages from the Bible so we could see them, free and unencumbered from the man-made interpretation that was added in the "Top View." What follows are the Biblical passages:




    Please note there is not a single reference dictating to a would be mom what she should or should not do with an unwanted pregnancy, either due to it being unplanned, forced (rape), inappropriate, or unhealthy, in which either the baby or mother's life potentially could be at risk.

    Note there are a whole host of issues that are ignored here. Indeed, the entire question of whether the Mom even has the right to end her own pregnancy isn't even addressed. It doesnt even come up in the narrative. You would think if this was such a clear, cut and dry issue, there would be something along the lines of "And the instant you begin to form in the womb, you shall remain untouched by human hands until you are ready to take your first breath." Or words to that effect. Or something like that. But no, nothing.

    Yet somehow, our "Top View" writers still conclude,



    Interesting, no?
    Thou shall not murder.

    It's crystal clear.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  6. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    So I took the liberty of lifting all the direct passages from the Bible so we could see them, free and unencumbered from the man-made interpretation that was added in the "Top View." What follows are the Biblical passages:




    Please note there is not a single reference dictating to a would be mom what she should or should not do with an unwanted pregnancy, either due to it being unplanned, forced (rape), inappropriate, or unhealthy, in which either the baby or mother's life potentially could be at risk.

    Note there are a whole host of issues that are ignored here. Indeed, the entire question of whether the Mom even has the right to end her own pregnancy isn't even addressed. It doesnt even come up in the narrative. You would think if this was such a clear, cut and dry issue, there would be something along the lines of "And the instant you begin to form in the womb, you shall remain untouched by human hands until you are ready to take your first breath." Or words to that effect. Or something like that. But no, nothing.

    Yet somehow, our "Top View" writers still conclude,



    Interesting, no?
    LOL, so now I just realized I strawmanned Brett who was not arguing about abortion but rather what the Bible says about the beginning of a human life. So we'll have to do this again, this time for abortion. Bur first, a word from our subscriber, the Top View folks themselves":

    The Bible does not directly address abortion, but it does speak directly regarding God's view of human life, including life within the womb. From these references we can develop a clear Christian worldview regarding the modern issue of abortion.
    Hello! And with that disclaimer, we shall continue, using only Biblical quotes:

    "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.' . . . So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them" (Genesis 1:26-27).

    In Exodus 21:22-25,(quoted correctly and verbatim, here, by the way) “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

    "For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."

    "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations"

    "When Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, 'Blessed are you among women! . . . Behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy"




    Psalm 139:13-16 is a poetic description of life in the womb: "For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them." Here again, life in the womb is described as God's creation and therefore of tremendous worth.

    In Jeremiah 1:5 God says, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations." Even before Jeremiah's birth, God had formed the prophet on purpose, for a purpose.

    "When Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, 'Blessed are you among women! . . . Behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy'" (Luke 1:41-44).
    And there you have it, again. Not one reference (surprise surprise) to anything that could be construed as being even remotely relevant to the contemporary debate. But again, that doesn't stop our writers from concluding:

    The consensus of Scripture is that a baby in the womb is a unique human life. Therefore, children in the womb should be respected and protected. The Bible has much to say about defending the cause of the weak, especially those who have no voice. "Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute" (Proverbs 31:8; see also Psalm 82:3). We bear the responsibility to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves, including children in the womb.
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 07-30-2021 at 11:34 AM.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  7. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    so the answer is no, you've not looked to see how this has been resolved. Thanks.
    As I said, I can read just fine — the matter has been resolved quite to my satisfaction and by a trustworthy source.

  8. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Thou shall not murder.

    It's crystal clear.
    Except what isn't crystal clear -- anything but, in fact -- is that the Bible says a fetus is the equivalent of a human being. Show me the Bible text without the subjective opinion supporting that thought so we can discuss.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  9. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    As I said, I can read just fine — the matter has been resolved quite to my satisfaction and by a trustworthy source.
    Never once questioned your resolve. Just pointed it's uneducated.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  10. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Except what isn't crystal clear -- anything but, in fact -- is that the Bible says a fetus is the equivalent of a human being. Show me the Bible text without the subjective opinion supporting that thought so we can discuss.
    You posted it.
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  11. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    You posted that it's not clear at all.
    Fixed it for you.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  12. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    broke it for you.
    I adjusted your typo
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  13. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    I adjusted your typo
    Lol.

    Yes you did.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  14. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Just pointed it's uneducated.
    Considering the source, I take that as the highest compliment.

  15. #945
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    You’d figure if God wanted to make it unambiguous he would have just said “abortion is wrong” in the Bible directly.

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