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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Hypothetical: If, and admittedly, this is a BIG IF, but IF there were no God, would there be any such thing as sin?

    Just for the sake of this argument, let’s assume in this thought experiment that there was no God. Would there be any such thing as sin?
    Semantically or ethically?
    Ethically, societal norms would still view sins as a bad thing, but since the word is a religious construct society would use a different term.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Semantically or ethically?
    Ethically, societal norms would still view sins as a bad thing, but since the word is a religious construct society would use a different term.
    Since religion is a man made idea so is the thought of sin. So there would still be sin, just called something else. Immoral, unethical, crime, etc.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Semantically or ethically?
    Ethically, societal norms would still view sins as a bad thing, but since the word is a religious construct society would use a different term.
    Ethically societal norms would view bad things as they always do: Bad things.

    Bad things don’t become sins until there is a God to sin to. Wouldn’t you agree?

  4. #124
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    I agree with SiteWolf that bad things is a subset of sin
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Ethically societal norms would view bad things as they always do: Bad things.

    Bad things don’t become sins until there is a God to sin to. Wouldn’t you agree?
    In some places a Coke is a soda, in others it's pop
    Either way it's a caramel colored carbonated beverage.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  6. #126
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    I learned — in an academic setting — that western religions view sin as a state of being, not as an individual act (despite the tendency even among the religious to misconstrue it, such as “Father, I have sinned” or “it’s a sin to do x...y...z.”)

    Apparently all humans — good, bad or indifferent — exist in a state of sin, which I understand sort of means “separated from and directed away from God”, in effect, we screwed up and got our butts kicked out of a perfect paradise. (EDITorial Comment: the Adam and Eve myth places the blame on humans and the serpent, but at the end of the day, it is God’s choice to kick us out of Eden).

    The sins we commit (or omit) are a result of this state. So, when the priests say “Go out and sin no more,” they are telling us to do something that is impossible, unless.......
    Last edited by Crovash; 01-22-2021 at 12:15 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I learned — in an academic setting
    pretty much all I needed to know
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    pretty much all I needed to know
    Perhaps you could attempt to enlighten rather than mock.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    In some places a Coke is a soda, in others it's pop
    Either way it's a caramel colored carbonated beverage.
    Yes. But in the absence of God, is a bad thing anything more than a bad thing?

    Or do you always use “sin” synonymously with bad things?

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Perhaps you could attempt to enlighten rather than mock.
    Mock? That wasn't mocking.
    You said you learned about religion in an academic setting.
    An academic setting would not give you the spiritual aspect of understanding religion, which is a game changer.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Mock? That wasn't mocking.
    You said you learned about religion in an academic setting.
    An academic setting would not give you the spiritual aspect of understanding religion, which is a game changer.
    The way you phrased it seemed self-righteous (which was odd because I know that while you are fervent in your faith, you never been condescending).

    So, with an insider’s vision, what is incorrect about what I was taught — albeit in an academic setting — about the Christian concept of sin?

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    The way you phrased it seemed self-righteous (which was odd because I know that while you are fervent in your faith, you never been condescending).

    So, with an insider’s vision, what is incorrect about what I was taught — albeit in an academic setting — about the Christian concept of sin?
    You can be in sin and commit sin. They are not necessarily exclusive.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    I agree a God that is arbitrary is not perfect. God does nothing arbitrarily. Our lack of understanding is not God being arbitrary.
    No, but requiring a belief in Jesus seems pretty arbitrary since it has nothing to do with being a good person or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Good people do not get to go to Heaven. Heaven is for perfect people only. Either you have to be perfect (impossible to do) or you have to have someone pay the judge for the crimes you commit. We all commit sin. That disqualifies us from perfection. The only way to enter is to have someone pay our price. Jesus did just that.

    In non-spiritual terms how many drops of any color of paint changes the paint from white to something else? The answer is just one drop. The gallon is now no longer perfectly white.
    So Jesus paid for our sin but only if you believe he did?

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    But you have no idea who will be denied what and for what reason. Both mine and sitewolf religion teach us only god can judge anyone, no human can. You're harping on something that is ultimately inconsequential.

    That's not to say it's not fair to make that point, but you're asking sitewolf to step into God's shoes, that's an impossible task. No one can judge any one else, it only matters how you look in god's eyes.
    But it’s not inconsequential because it is an example that WILL happen, and the Bible teaches us for that scenario there will be a particular outcome.

    According to the Bible, you can only get into Heaven if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (among other things). There are good people who do not, so according to the Bible they will not go to Heaven. Unless you’re saying there’s no such thing as a good person who doesn’t believe Jesus is our Lord and Savior (in which case you and I are screwed)...

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Know anyone that is perfect?
    I'll wait for your list.
    I don’t know of anyone, but I am wondering why specifically, other than God said it was, is not believing in him a sin?

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