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  1. #1006
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    You ask, "Why are you pushing back?" We ask, "Why aren't you?" I suppose we'll never meet up at the same place. But i still get a kick out of these discussions.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  2. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    It is very easy. You've chosen to make it difficult
    Not really, the Bible has done that. Considering God doesn’t even abide by Thou Shalt Not Take An Innocent Life. God killed every firstborn son of Egypt. We’re they guilty because of the actions of the Pharaoh?

    How does that take reconcile with the 6th commandment?

  3. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Not really, the Bible has done that. Considering God doesn’t even abide by Thou Shalt Not Take An Innocent Life. God killed every firstborn son of Egypt. We’re they guilty because of the actions of the Pharaoh?

    How does that take reconcile with the 6th commandment?
    I've heard the response to that question which, full disclosure, is a personal favorite. I'm often told that the laws are for people to follow, not for God himself. Because, after all, he's God and he gets do do what he wants and whatever he does is perfect because, he's God. God never makes mistakes.

    Tough to argue with that logic.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  4. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    I'm sure it's very easy for someone who believes. You have to understand how difficult it is for someone who does not. I get it. It all makes sense to you.

    It doesn't to us. It's why we're skeptics.
    This isn't a spiritual thing. It's a simple language thing. Your inability to admit you have a problem is exactly what prevents you from achieving understanding.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  5. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    This isn't a spiritual thing. It's a simple language thing. Your inability to admit you have a problem is exactly what prevents you from achieving understanding.
    Is it your position that nothing in the Bible can possibly be construed as ambiguous or unclear?
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  6. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Is it your position that nothing in the Bible can possibly be construed as ambiguous or unclear?
    Nope
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  7. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Nope
    Oh, so it is your position then that some things in the Bible CAN be construed as ambiguous or unclear, then.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  8. #1013
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    Which one is it?
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  9. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    That you believe that is not surprising at all. I'm still awaiting for you to be correct in this area. That wait continues.
    Of course the gospels have the same purpose: to show the apotheosis of a human being so as to sell their fantasy to those gullible enough to dismiss all evidence to the contrary,

    It’s really quite simple. Sad that there are humans who still buy the codswallop.

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Of course the gospels have the same purpose: to show the apotheosis of a human being so as to sell their fantasy to those gullible enough to dismiss all evidence to the contrary,

    It’s really quite simple. Sad that there are humans who still buy the codswallop.
    yes, because a few guys, nearly two millenia before the advent of capitalism, got together and decided 'ya know what would be really funny....'

    once again, you guys act like you want to have legitimate discussion, then the 70 foot rabbits and the codswallop appear showing otherwise

    I'm not here for your amusement. I quite obviously have zero reservation about believing as I do and talking about it, but the closest to 'demeaning' I've ever gotten is to have the audacity to use the word sinner (despite including myself as one)
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  11. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Is it your position that nothing in the Bible can possibly be construed as ambiguous or unclear?
    For cripes sakes, name a writing that CAN'T possibly be construed as ambiguous or unclear? Let alone a collection of books written by many different authors at multiple different times in more than one language and compiled into one edition.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    For cripes sakes, name a writing that CAN'T possibly be construed as ambiguous or unclear? Let alone a collection of books written by many different authors at multiple different times in more than one language and compiled into one edition.
    Thank you.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  13. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Shall not kill is not never take a life. It's to never take an innocent life.

    No worries about missing that unless of course one is purposely intellectually dishonest.
    No it's not. It's talking about unlawful killing; murder, essentially.

    But we're also talking about a book (by which I mean Exodus) that says, "If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed." so it's not like we're talking about the most universally applicable of set of rules to begin with here.

    Of course, there's also the small matter of which Abrahamic religion you're talking about here, too. Judasim has no problem with abortion, and I don't know if you've noticed but they're pretty big on the Old Testament... although they don't call it that, of course.

    You know, if you wanted to be intellectually honest.

    There is also the small issue of Exodus 21, literally the very next chapter after the Ten Commandments.

    "If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

    The fetus is clearly not being treated as an equal life here. How do you explain this if "do not kill" applies to the fetus, but the punishment for hitting a pregnant woman and causing her to give birth too early is money, as opposed to death if you kill her?


    "The thing we may have to accept is that red states really like this pandemic and want to keep it.”" - @LOLGOP

  14. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    For cripes sakes, name a writing that CAN'T possibly be construed as ambiguous or unclear? Let alone a collection of books written by many different authors at multiple different times in more than one language and compiled into one edition.
    I would think one "divinely inspired" by an omniscient deity wouldn't be. If the guy that knows everything that is, was, or ever will be can't even communicate clearly, how could you possibly set up a system where someone is punished for eternity?


    "The thing we may have to accept is that red states really like this pandemic and want to keep it.”" - @LOLGOP

  15. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    yes, because a few guys, nearly two millenia before the advent of capitalism, got together and decided 'ya know what would be really funny....'

    once again, you guys act like you want to have legitimate discussion, then the 70 foot rabbits and the codswallop appear showing otherwise

    I'm not here for your amusement. I quite obviously have zero reservation about believing as I do and talking about it, but the closest to 'demeaning' I've ever gotten is to have the audacity to use the word sinner (despite including myself as one)
    I am not on this forum to be entertained and your position does not amuse me. As I have said before, it baffles me and even saddens me — maybe until I look around the world and the whole house of cards becomes a little more understandable: reality is a very hard taskmaster; we are mortal, and our existence is at best insignificant and more likely meaningless. As I see it, this state of affairs is simply the way nature is, not a result of something contrived like sinfulness (and I am no sinner, and as far as I am concerned, neither are you).

    Call me foolish. Call my worldview pessimistic. Threaten me with eternal damnation. It matters not. I am not offended. While it seems that you and I will never see I to-eye-eye on anything related to Christian doctrine, I would only add that the whole thing about a “legitimate discussion” is a two-way street.

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