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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    In terms of a vertical game-Carr could be one of the best in the NFL. This isn't 2002 anymore.
    I see your point, but consider that Watson threw for 4,823 yards this season with 33 touchdowns and only 7 INTs with a 112.4 passer rating. Compare that to Carr's stats of 4,103 yards, 27 touchdowns, 9 INTs and a rating of 101.4.

    The difference? One of these guys had Tim Kelly for an OC. The other had Gruden. To those of you who feel that Carr was better this year, you have to say that Gruden was the difference. Well, that and the unexpected productivity of guys like Agholor.

    And I'm not saying that Watson is a finished product. It's only his 3rd season. He hasn't even hit his prime yet as a passer. But Gannon wasn't Gannon in his 3rd year either. Not even in the same universe as Watson. As much I doubt Gruden, I am fairly confident that if he had someone like Watson to groom, this team would be in contention for more than just a .500 record every year.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbacknick View Post
    You guys still plugging getting rid of Carr?
    Relax, D, just enjoying a good "What if?" And it's not to bash Carr, but with an eye to improving the team's fortunes in general. Yeah, it's a pipe dream, but I suspect that if the reports are true, Deshaun is going to want out of Houston soon. I'm just signing my name to the wish list before everyone else does.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    I see your point, but consider that Watson threw for 4,823 yards this season with 33 touchdowns and only 7 INTs with a 112.4 passer rating. Compare that to Carr's stats of 4,103 yards, 27 touchdowns, 9 INTs and a rating of 101.4.

    The difference? One of these guys had Tim Kelly for an OC. The other had Gruden. To those of you who feel that Carr was better this year, you have to say that Gruden was the difference. Well, that and the unexpected productivity of guys like Agholor.

    And I'm not saying that Watson is a finished product. It's only his 3rd season. He hasn't even hit his prime yet as a passer. But Gannon wasn't Gannon in his 3rd year either. Not even in the same universe as Watson. As much I doubt Gruden, I am fairly confident that if he had someone like Watson to groom, this team would be in contention for more than just a .500 record every year.
    ^ Watson is 25, while Carr is 29. That's an extra 4 years of 'franchise QB' caliber play. It merits consideration. Carr + a first round pick is a no-brainer. Carr + 1st / 3rd ...? Maybe. More than that is too much, IMO, though it's tempting.

    What else merits consideration: Gruden dragging his feet on the DC search. Is he waiting on Raheem Morris? Nothing prevents him from interviewing Raheem Morris today.

    Reading the tea-leaves, I'm worried that Gruden is preparing to give Marinelli the DC job full time. Joe Barry? Kris Richard? Both Marinelli "guys" - his SIL and former play-caller in Dallas.

    It's deeply concerning.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceGully View Post
    I have been in Carr’s corner BUT if you have a chance to get a top five QB, you don’t take it?

    Carr is good, not great or elite. We can win with him, especially if we can upgrade our defense but Watson moves that timeline up, can cover up some of the defensive inefficiencies and he is younger.

    I would give up first rounds for Watson based on the way we have drafted.
    I don't think Watson is top 5. BTW, if we didn't land Brady last year, what makes anyone think we'll trade Carr, especially after the year that he's had?

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbacknick View Post
    I don't think Watson is top 5. BTW, if we didn't land Brady last year, what makes anyone think we'll trade Carr, especially after the year that he's had?
    I don't think the Raiders will get rid of Carr for Watson. If it were viable, I'd take the deal, if only to get a few extra years of playoff caliber QB play.

    Quickest way to the playoffs is to hire a new DC, new defensive coaching staff and get some more defensive talent. An improved defense + the Raider offense will net this franchise a playoff run.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shred003 View Post
    I don't think the Raiders will get rid of Carr for Watson. If it were viable, I'd take the deal, if only to get a few extra years of playoff caliber QB play.

    Quickest way to the playoffs is to hire a new DC, new defensive coaching staff and get some more defensive talent. An improved defense + the Raider offense will net this franchise a playoff run.
    Agreed. If they can't fix the D, I don't care who's the QB.

  7. #187
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    Rumors: Joe Brady to take the Falcons HC job.

    LINK

    Why care? Brady to Atlanta means Raheem Morris isn’t getting a HC gig this year. That means he’s a free agent ... and a target for Gruden.

    Wouldn’t surprise me if this condenses / accelerates the DC ‘search.’
    Last edited by Shred003; 01-10-2021 at 03:31 PM.

  8. #188
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    The longer we wait the worse this is going to turn out.
    I hope it turns out for the best but i have that feeling. I dont trust Gruden anymore.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


    IN CHUCKY WE TRUST

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    I see your point, but consider that Watson threw for 4,823 yards this season with 33 touchdowns and only 7 INTs with a 112.4 passer rating. Compare that to Carr's stats of 4,103 yards, 27 touchdowns, 9 INTs and a rating of 101.4.

    The difference? One of these guys had Tim Kelly for an OC. The other had Gruden. To those of you who feel that Carr was better this year, you have to say that Gruden was the difference. Well, that and the unexpected productivity of guys like Agholor.

    And I'm not saying that Watson is a finished product. It's only his 3rd season. He hasn't even hit his prime yet as a passer. But Gannon wasn't Gannon in his 3rd year either. Not even in the same universe as Watson. As much I doubt Gruden, I am fairly confident that if he had someone like Watson to groom, this team would be in contention for more than just a .500 record every year.

    I think this is a big question mark going into 2021. Does Gruden look back or does Gruden look forward with his offense.

    I believe that depends on the QB. With Carr I think Gruden needs to open things up. I think he needs to push the ball downfield and I think all of this is predicated with how he uses Josh Jacobs and how well Carr operates under center to sell play action. The runningback position has always been a focal point in his passing game. Why he doesn't utilize Jacobs more in that capacity is puzzling.

    BTW-Gruden has never embraced a vertical passing strategy even when has had the QB's that could hit those routes.

    With a Mariotta or DeSuan Watson (hypothetically) the QB becomes a dual threat and in the case of Watson you have a dual threat QB that could push the ball downfield. Gruden never utilized that aspect of Rich Gannon game and despite opinions to the contrary Gannon could go deep as he demonstrated playing for Norv Turner.

    People will point to the statistics and say the offense is fine, but redzone production remains liability and Gruden still isn't showcasing Jacobs in the passing game (ala Charlie Garner).

    QB mobility does help in the redzone. The element of unpredictability once a play breaks down is difficult to game plan against.

    Watson and Lamar Jackson are freaks of nature. Duel threat QB's that can strike from any place on the field with their arms or their feet. Tyerelle Pryor could show flashes of that minus the intangibles.

    What that type of QB could do in a Jon Gruden offense is an interesting hypothetical.
    Last edited by Proximo; 01-10-2021 at 04:39 PM.

  10. #190
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    I'm a fan of Deshaun Watson but those of you that think we would automatically be better with him should consider that we scored 50 more points this season than the Texans did. I would expect further improvement from our offense next season.

    Watson also has a bigger contract so that would leave less money to spend on other positions.

    Then there is the fact that Watson led his team to a 4-12 record...further evidence that it takes a team to win.

    And for all of those people who say that Carr does not make anyone better just look at Nelson Agholor and Daren Waller. Sure Waller looks like a stud now but prior to joining the Raiders he had less than 100 yards receiving in his career.

    What this team needs is a couple of impact players on defense and a competent defensive coordinator. Firing Guenther was the first step in the process of fixing this defense and hopefully getting us back in the playoffs.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    What that type of QB could do in a Jon Gruden offense is an interesting hypothetical.
    Agreed. And that's why I say, hypothetically speaking, if Watson was available via a trade, I'd have no problems sending as much as 3 first rounders to get him. The Raiders would recoup one of those picks by trading Carr to a team like WFT that drafts ahead of the Raiders this year.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    Agreed. And that's why I say, hypothetically speaking, if Watson was available via a trade, I'd have no problems sending as much as 3 first rounders to get him. The Raiders would recoup one of those picks by trading Carr to a team like WFT that drafts ahead of the Raiders this year.
    The way we draft, I’d trade our next three drafts for Watson [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by KobeOwnSU View Post
    The way we draft, I’d trade our next three drafts for Watson [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You’re enamored by another QB with flashy stats and a W/L that sucks, save the picks we’re already there...
    The Second protects the First, always has and always will...

  14. #194
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    Phil-lips, Phil-lips, Phil-lips....
    The Second protects the First, always has and always will...

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by raidermike View Post
    The longer we wait the worse this is going to turn out.
    I hope it turns out for the best but i have that feeling. I dont trust Gruden anymore.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    I see by your sig that you have a deeply conflicted personality...
    The Second protects the First, always has and always will...

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