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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    Been posting here since Ď08, every year itís the same crap. Everyone on this board sees what the Raiders ought to do, we talk about it endlessly.

    The powers that be at the helm of the ship rarely see the same thing, whoís right here?

    Iíve tried to look at it objectively by looking at other teams to see if the do the same dumb **** and some do, but itís mostly the team with the most loyal fan base in the NFL that seems endlessly committed to mediocrity...
    Great post.

    Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Gruden doubled down on his offense, fueled by egomaniacal dreams of creating an offense that outscores everyone, leaving the defense to use whatever scraps are left to put up a scintilla of resistance to other teams. Conventional wisdom says it's time build up the defense, but I don't yet trust that Jon can help himself.

  2. #302
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    Feb 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    Great post.

    Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Gruden doubled down on his offense, fueled by egomaniacal dreams of creating an offense that outscores everyone, leaving the defense to use whatever scraps are left to put up a scintilla of resistance to other teams. Conventional wisdom says it's time build up the defense, but I don't yet trust that Jon can help himself.
    Plausibly concerning.

  3. #303
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    Nov 2007
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    Los Angeles
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
    I'd be willing to cut costs elsewhere on the offense, just to make sure the OL stays decent, yet still free up enough money to help the D. It's why I'm not bullish on re-signing Nelson. An offense can be productive with replacement level WRs, but not with good WRs coupled to a crap OL.

    We can get a replacements for Incognito and Brown for less money, either in the draft or FA. Perhaps not quite as good, but not horrid. Cut Tyrell. Don't spend on Agholor when there's likely a cheap alternative out there (or you ride it out with this past year's rookies). The offense will still be good, but cost less, and that money can be spent on the defensive front.
    The problem with just ďreplacing brown and RichieĒ is they are two players that are top 20 at the position they play. So just replacing them cheaper is an impossibility. That means we would lose goode(who will get a good payday), lose Richie, brown and young. So, we would have no lg and no rt. Itís hard to get a good, cheap lg and rt unless you grab them in the first two rounds. If we do that then we donít fill big needs on d!

    If we go with Simpson and some 5th rounder to play rt, we will be in trouble on o. Our o is good. Keep it good and improve the d. I say restructure Richie. Keep him one year and replace him next year. Simpson can backup. So we only have to worry about rt on o.

  4. #304
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    Apr 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shred003 View Post
    Every single educated human being looked at Joyner's contract with the Raiders and said: "He's not an outside CB and he's not a slot CB, he's a good FS. Anything but FS is a waste of his talents."

    NFL coaches watch film every day. They work incredibly hard and earn massive salaries. I cannot imagine how the Raiders botched LaMarcus Joyner's time in Oakland/Vegas so badly. You paid him to be an undersized but over productive FS ... and then didn't play him at FS. Mystifying.

    Joyner had a 90.3 PFF rating playing FS for the Rams. I hadn't realized he'd been that good. That's top-3 in the league kind of good.

    Just put him back at FS, sign a DT and start looking for new players at RT and depth for OG / C.
    This Joyner thing just boggles my mind. If we all can see it, how can't they see it.

  5. #305
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    Apr 2010
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    South Dakota
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    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    Been posting here since Ď08, every year itís the same crap. Everyone on this board sees what the Raiders ought to do, we talk about it endlessly.

    The powers that be at the helm of the ship rarely see the same thing, whoís right here?

    Iíve tried to look at it objectively by looking at other teams to see if the do the same dumb **** and some do, but itís mostly the team with the most loyal fan base in the NFL that seems endlessly committed to mediocrity...
    We are, because they continually suck at defense so they have to be wrong right????

  6. #306
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    Feb 2006
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    Chicago, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by krsonekth View Post
    We are, because they continually suck at defense so they have to be wrong right????
    Institutional logic can be a real MF'er. The Raiders allocate their resources the wrong way.

    The Davis' seem hell-bent on recreating the Lester Hayes / Mike Haynes pairing. It's admirable, but silly.

    I broke down their drafts a while back: they've spent 15 first round picks on defense over the last 20 years, but 11 of those were on DBs. Fabian Washington, Michael Huff, Karl Joseph, DJ Hayden, Gareon Conley, etc etc

    Almost without exception, good defensive teams have great DLs. While the Raiders were drafting Michael Huff, DJ Hayden and Karl Joseph, Haloti Ngata, Sheldon Richardson and Kenny Clark were on the board.

    You want a great defense? Get excellent an excellent DL. You can find decent zone corners in the middle rounds.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shred003 View Post
    Institutional logic can be a real MF'er. The Raiders allocate their resources the wrong way.

    The Davis' seem hell-bent on recreating the Lester Hayes / Mike Haynes pairing. It's admirable, but silly.

    I broke down their drafts a while back: they've spent 15 first round picks on defense over the last 20 years, but 11 of those were on DBs. Fabian Washington, Michael Huff, Karl Joseph, DJ Hayden, Gareon Conley, etc etc

    Almost without exception, good defensive teams have great DLs. While the Raiders were drafting Michael Huff, DJ Hayden and Karl Joseph, Haloti Ngata, Sheldon Richardson and Kenny Clark were on the board.

    You want a great defense? Get excellent an excellent DL. You can find decent zone corners in the middle rounds.
    You could argue you have to have a great secondary. QBís generally release the ball within 3 seconds on the majority of their passes, often leaving the DL inutile.

    That being said I feel personally you have to havebe disciplined in your rushing lanes and play team defense, which comes down to coaching. Schemes are different under every system, but the quickest way to the QB still has not changed and is from the inside. That is where we lack a real BEAST, someone who teams have to game plan against and I am guessing the organisation understands this so expect that as the focus on the DL. If they look ok at the secondary FS is the obvious need and with coach Bradley being in charge, Trevon Moehrig is the best play who plays in the style he would want, able to lockdown the single high Position and is exceptional in man coverage when he has been asked, plus a very reliable tackler.

    Either Williams would be good for me at DT but am guessing Leonard would be the choice, because Quinnen is not moving unless a hefty price is paid.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHIL MAGROIN View Post
    You could argue you have to have a great secondary. QBís generally release the ball within 3 seconds on the majority of their passes, often leaving the DL inutile.

    That being said I feel personally you have to havebe disciplined in your rushing lanes and play team defense, which comes down to coaching. Schemes are different under every system, but the quickest way to the QB still has not changed and is from the inside. That is where we lack a real BEAST, someone who teams have to game plan against and I am guessing the organisation understands this so expect that as the focus on the DL. If they look ok at the secondary FS is the obvious need and with coach Bradley being in charge, Trevon Moehrig is the best play who plays in the style he would want, able to lockdown the single high Position and is exceptional in man coverage when he has been asked, plus a very reliable tackler.

    Either Williams would be good for me at DT but am guessing Leonard would be the choice, because Quinnen is not moving unless a hefty price is paid.
    QBs generally have 5+ seconds against our defense
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Carr may very well be the worst starting QB in Raiders history. Carr is like a root canal that takes 8 hrs. The Raiders have stuck with this bum going on 7 seasons! All they have to show for it is excuses. I hope Mariorta runs him out of training camp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Sounds as though Mayock is waxing the Pinto and installing fake leather seat covers and chrome hubcaps before posting it on Craigslist.

  9. #309
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    California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shred003 View Post
    Institutional logic can be a real MF'er. The Raiders allocate their resources the wrong way.

    The Davis' seem hell-bent on recreating the Lester Hayes / Mike Haynes pairing. It's admirable, but silly.

    I broke down their drafts a while back: they've spent 15 first round picks on defense over the last 20 years, but 11 of those were on DBs. Fabian Washington, Michael Huff, Karl Joseph, DJ Hayden, Gareon Conley, etc etc

    Almost without exception, good defensive teams have great DLs. While the Raiders were drafting Michael Huff, DJ Hayden and Karl Joseph, Haloti Ngata, Sheldon Richardson and Kenny Clark were on the board.

    You want a great defense? Get excellent an excellent DL. You can find decent zone corners in the middle rounds.
    49ers are a great example of how you build a defense. Just look at how many first round picks they spent on the defensive line. Armstead, Buckner, Thomas, Bosa, Kinlaw. All first round picks the last 5-6 years. Granted they did struggle this season due to injuries. But the season before they were healthy and had a dominant defense. Also I should add that trading away Buckner was a huge mistake by them. He really transformed Colts defense this season
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Carr may very well be the worst starting QB in Raiders history. Carr is like a root canal that takes 8 hrs. The Raiders have stuck with this bum going on 7 seasons! All they have to show for it is excuses. I hope Mariorta runs him out of training camp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Sounds as though Mayock is waxing the Pinto and installing fake leather seat covers and chrome hubcaps before posting it on Craigslist.

  10. #310
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    Mar 2007
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    Corona, Ca
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    18,211
    Remember when we won that meaningless game against the Cardinals and lost out on Bosa? Yeah that was cool.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #311
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    Apr 2010
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    South Dakota
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shred003 View Post
    Institutional logic can be a real MF'er. The Raiders allocate their resources the wrong way.

    The Davis' seem hell-bent on recreating the Lester Hayes / Mike Haynes pairing. It's admirable, but silly.

    I broke down their drafts a while back: they've spent 15 first round picks on defense over the last 20 years, but 11 of those were on DBs. Fabian Washington, Michael Huff, Karl Joseph, DJ Hayden, Gareon Conley, etc etc

    Almost without exception, good defensive teams have great DLs. While the Raiders were drafting Michael Huff, DJ Hayden and Karl Joseph, Haloti Ngata, Sheldon Richardson and Kenny Clark were on the board.

    You want a great defense? Get excellent an excellent DL. You can find decent zone corners in the middle rounds.

  12. #312
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    49ers are a great example of how you build a defense. Just look at how many first round picks they spent on the defensive line. Armstead, Buckner, Thomas, Bosa, Kinlaw. All first round picks the last 5-6 years. Granted they did struggle this season due to injuries. But the season before they were healthy and had a dominant defense. Also I should add that trading away Buckner was a huge mistake by them. He really transformed Colts defense this season

    Buckner and Bosa were ELITE players for the 49ers I will agree. You have to be selecting high to get really great players, but those players also have to be available when you pick and unfortunately Bosa and Williams went the two selections before we picked. The Washington team have put together the best DL in my opinion. If I were able to be able to choose one it would be thereís.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    49ers are a great example of how you build a defense. Just look at how many first round picks they spent on the defensive line. Armstead, Buckner, Thomas, Bosa, Kinlaw. All first round picks the last 5-6 years. Granted they did struggle this season due to injuries. But the season before they were healthy and had a dominant defense. Also I should add that trading away Buckner was a huge mistake by them. He really transformed Colts defense this season

    Buckner and Bosa were ELITE players for the 49ers I will agree. You have to be selecting high to get really great players, but those players also have to be available when you pick and unfortunately Bosa and Williams went the two selections before we picked. I was and still am a fan of Clelinís game, but we did select him too high. Who knows if he would have still be available with one of our later selections 🤷*♂️ The Washington team have put together the best DL in my opinion. If I were able to be able to choose one from what would be consider the top oneís it would be thereís no question.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    49ers are a great example of how you build a defense. Just look at how many first round picks they spent on the defensive line. Armstead, Buckner, Thomas, Bosa, Kinlaw. All first round picks the last 5-6 years. Granted they did struggle this season due to injuries. But the season before they were healthy and had a dominant defense. Also I should add that trading away Buckner was a huge mistake by them. He really transformed Colts defense this season

    Buckner and Bosa were ELITE players for the 49ers I will agree. You have to be selecting high to get really great players, but those players also have to be available when you pick and unfortunately Bosa and Williams went the two selections before we picked. I was and still am a fan of Clelinís game, but we did select him too high. Who knows if he would have still be available with one of our later selections 🤷*♂️The Washington team have put together the best DL in my opinion. If I were able to be able to choose one from what would be consider the top oneís it would be thereís no question.

  15. #315
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    Feb 2006
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    Chicago, IL
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    17,937
    Quote Originally Posted by PHIL MAGROIN View Post
    Buckner and Bosa were ELITE players for the 49ers I will agree. You have to be selecting high to get really great players, but those players also have to be available when you pick and unfortunately Bosa and Williams went the two selections before we picked. I was and still am a fan of Clelinís game, but we did select him too high. Who knows if he would have still be available with one of our later selections 🤷*♂️The Washington team have put together the best DL in my opinion. If I were able to be able to choose one from what would be consider the top oneís it would be thereís no question.
    Thoughts so strong you posted it three times.

    DL, specifically DT. Leonard Williams is worth $20M a season and heíll pressure up the middle. The different between 7-8 wins or 10-12 wins, IMO

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