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  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Honest question, who doesn't think Howard is the best player on the team?
    I think he is the best player right now for sure, but I think Waddle will take that spot in 2022 whether Howard is here or not, with Tua coming in a 2nd (3rd if Howard stays).

  2. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Honest question, who doesn't think Howard is the best player on the team?
    Howard is by far the best player on the team. Only truly proven game changer on the roster. Tons of guys I think have high ceilings, but X makes 1-2 game changing plays per game.

  3. #723
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    Warner just got his deal, 95M... And Leonard is supposed to come in with a 4 year deal with a AAV north of 19M. This is why signing Baker early was a win.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  4. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    Warner just got his deal, 95M... And Leonard is supposed to come in with a 4 year deal with a AAV north of 19M. This is why signing Baker early was a win.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Yuuuuuup. Warner is on another level that I donít see Baker ever getting to, but the LB market was about to explode. Knew the moment we signed him that it had the potential to look good in just another year or two.

    I just donít like the player as much as others.

    Edit: lol Schefter is now saying that Dariu Leonard is expecting a new deal at an average of $19 mil a year shortly. So yea the market is going to be completely reset in the next year. FAs next year will be getting the Baker deal AT LEAST.
    Last edited by KodytheKing; 07-21-2021 at 02:11 PM.

  5. #725
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    that is stupid money for a LBer. I view LB as one of the easier positions to re-fill to be honest. But with Warner, they have Trey on a rookie deal for the next 5 years, so they can fit it under their cap. Jimmy G is gone after 2021 anyways, money had to go somewhere. But it's just super dumb to pay a LBer that kind of money. Great job by Grier to get it done early, but you wonder if Baker pulls a 'Howard' move in a couple years and asks for more. This is why its uber important to not give in to Howard's demands, cause then it gives someone like Baker ammunition to seek more.

    Grier got ahead of the market when he extended Howard, and did the same thing with Baker. also with the trade for McKinney. We basically have both Baker and McKinney in 2022 for the same price as Warner or (soon to be) Leonard. smart guy. Next it's got to be Gesicki . . . pleeeeeeeeeease

  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by KodytheKing View Post
    Yuuuuuup. Warner is on another level that I donít see Baker ever getting to, but the LB market was about to explode. Knew the moment we signed him that it had the potential to look good in just another year or two.

    I just donít like the player as much as others.

    Edit: lol Schefter is now saying that Dariu Leonard is expecting a new deal at an average of $19 mil a year shortly. So yea the market is going to be completely reset in the next year. FAs next year will be getting the Baker deal AT LEAST.
    Then Baker gets 100 tackles, 2 pass defenses and 8 sacks and decides he wants 19M a year next year. Unless Howard is handled appropriately, which appears to be the case so far anyway..

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeltBruinSoxFan View Post
    that is stupid money for a LBer. I view LB as one of the easier positions to re-fill to be honest. But with Warner, they have Trey on a rookie deal for the next 5 years, so they can fit it under their cap. Jimmy G is gone after 2021 anyways, money had to go somewhere. But it's just super dumb to pay a LBer that kind of money. Great job by Grier to get it done early, but you wonder if Baker pulls a 'Howard' move in a couple years and asks for more. This is why its uber important to not give in to Howard's demands, cause then it gives someone like Baker ammunition to seek more.

    Grier got ahead of the market when he extended Howard, and did the same thing with Baker. also with the trade for McKinney. We basically have both Baker and McKinney in 2022 for the same price as Warner or (soon to be) Leonard. smart guy. Next it's got to be Gesicki . . . pleeeeeeeeeease
    People are trying to overthink football too much. LB is still super important in the NFL. Itís just tough to find 3 down players that also play coverage well. Warner routinely covers WRs and does a good job at it. Dude is well worth that money.

    The problem with the Geiscki deal is that youíre extending him after the boom. Unfortunately Henry and Jonnu completely reset the market for above average TEs. Geiscki should justifiably be looking for 13mil a year at least.

  8. #728
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    I think we can all agree X is the best player on the roster at the moment. But with his age, his knees, his current contract, and the cliff corners fall off at around the 30 and 31 age season we better not give in.

    If it wasn't about the $ for X then why did he sign a contract to make him the highest paid corner fresh after missing 4 games in the 2018 season? He then went on to miss 11 games during the 2019 season on his deal as the highest paid corner. You're a fool if you don't think it's about $. IF he wanted to win then he wouldn't be complaining about his deal.

    Now I get it as a player he wants more $ because he knows, as well as the team, he is nearing the end of his elite pay. I'd say 1.5-2 more years left, if fully healthy, of elite play. Will eh produce last years #s on a different team? If there is Byron Jones cover corner on the other side then he very well could. I believe a lot of credit is due to Jones on the other side of X.

    To me it's a no brainer to move on from him. Will it hurt our defense in the short term - absolutely. If we give in and he gets hurt, likely based on previous knee issues, then we're f'd missed out on a chance to ship him out for maximum return. If he holds out of TC then shows up I can see him dealing with soft tissue issues this season.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    I think we can all agree X is the best player on the roster at the moment. But with his age, his knees, his current contract, and the cliff corners fall off at around the 30 and 31 age season we better not give in.

    If it wasn't about the $ for X then why did he sign a contract to make him the highest paid corner fresh after missing 4 games in the 2018 season? He then went on to miss 11 games during the 2019 season on his deal as the highest paid corner. You're a fool if you don't think it's about $. IF he wanted to win then he wouldn't be complaining about his deal.

    Now I get it as a player he wants more $ because he knows, as well as the team, he is nearing the end of his elite pay. I'd say 1.5-2 more years left, if fully healthy, of elite play. Will eh produce last years #s on a different team? If there is Byron Jones cover corner on the other side then he very well could. I believe a lot of credit is due to Jones on the other side of X.

    To me it's a no brainer to move on from him. Will it hurt our defense in the short term - absolutely. If we give in and he gets hurt, likely based on previous knee issues, then we're f'd missed out on a chance to ship him out for maximum return. If he holds out of TC then shows up I can see him dealing with soft tissue issues this season.
    I am 50/50 on this statement, just because if no team offers up, at minimum, a 1st rd pick or a equal player (albeit a different position - i'm looking at you Chandler Jones!) in return, then it would be better to hold onto him imo. I don't want to trade him just to trade him, I need a 1st rd pick ++ back in return. I agree he has worn out his welcome with his current antics. I'd be hesitant to even guarantee him money in the future. even though the contract technically doesn't change in terms of years or overall salary, it still sets a poor precedent for future negotiations.

    Lots of chatter that NO would be highly interested in him should he become available. Wonder how his knees would do with 8 games on turf? Imagine a Howard for Kamara trade lol? It brings me back to when Clinton Portis was traded for Champ Bailey.

    If a team says all we will give you is a 1st rd pick and nothing else, that's a tough sell on a (currently) elite CB, but one I would probably accept in the end.

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by KodytheKing View Post
    People are trying to overthink football too much. LB is still super important in the NFL. Itís just tough to find 3 down players that also play coverage well. Warner routinely covers WRs and does a good job at it. Dude is well worth that money.

    The problem with the Geiscki deal is that youíre extending him after the boom. Unfortunately Henry and Jonnu completely reset the market for above average TEs. Geiscki should justifiably be looking for 13mil a year at least.
    Not saying that LBer is not important, it is for sure, but I just think LBer is one of the easier positions to re-fill via FA or the draft. Right now, if MIA traded for Warner and his $19M/yr contract (or whatever it is), it would probably work out for the first couple years because we have so many starters on rookie contracts still. So I get the money thing . . . . SF had it to give in future years. It just a shock to my mental system seeing a MLB get paid that much.

  11. #731
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    Iím not saying that itís not about the money for X, but Iím just saying the dude got so offended about the money that heís delusional about the reasons for the other moves. The fact that he thinks itís so terrible that the Dolphins added two high profile players at the position in one of the most difficult schemes on a CB is nuts. Most players would say ďcool this helps make my life easierĒ but X is saying ďthese dudes only did it because they donít like me anymoreĒ. The answer is kinda in the middle, but if we didnít have Jones he probably just wants more money but doesnít feel ďdisrespectedĒ.

    Quote Originally Posted by CeltBruinSoxFan View Post
    Not saying that LBer is not important, it is for sure, but I just think LBer is one of the easier positions to re-fill via FA or the draft. Right now, if MIA traded for Warner and his $19M/yr contract (or whatever it is), it would probably work out for the first couple years because we have so many starters on rookie contracts still. So I get the money thing . . . . SF had it to give in future years. It just a shock to my mental system seeing a MLB get paid that much.
    Nah I get it. I started watching in the era when MLBs started shifting from the Ray Lewis types to the Luke Kuechly types where they HAD to be good in coverage, so I see the value in the position. Itís so easy to replace just because most teams donít even bother. I mean the Chiefs have a dog awful LB room and they still produce a playoff level caliber defense every year.

    I think itís back on the upwards trend like TE. Youíll start seeing them get paid more and more because having a coverage LB is so valuable to a team. Most teams donít have the depth to have so many secondary players after injuries.

  12. #732
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    So a CB on the Saints started tweeting out little hints about X being on the Saints. Tagged him in one with the eye ball emojis (I love that this type of tweet is actual news) and then one just talking about how good the secondary would be with him.

    That followed with all of the PFN guys hinting that X is on the move. Adam Beasley is now at PFN so I trust them even more with their sources.

    Iíve consistently said the Saints will be at the top of the bidding war. If they really tried to get into the top 10 for a rookie CB, theyíll offer at least a 1st for X.

  13. #733
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    Former #Seahawks LB Shaquem Griffin is visiting the #Dolphins today, per source. An intriguing potential addition for Miami before players report to camp next week.

    According to Tom Pelissero

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeltBruinSoxFan View Post
    I am 50/50 on this statement, just because if no team offers up, at minimum, a 1st rd pick or a equal player (albeit a different position - i'm looking at you Chandler Jones!) in return, then it would be better to hold onto him imo. I don't want to trade him just to trade him, I need a 1st rd pick ++ back in return. I agree he has worn out his welcome with his current antics. I'd be hesitant to even guarantee him money in the future. even though the contract technically doesn't change in terms of years or overall salary, it still sets a poor precedent for future negotiations.

    Lots of chatter that NO would be highly interested in him should he become available. Wonder how his knees would do with 8 games on turf? Imagine a Howard for Kamara trade lol? It brings me back to when Clinton Portis was traded for Champ Bailey.

    If a team says all we will give you is a 1st rd pick and nothing else, that's a tough sell on a (currently) elite CB, but one I would probably accept in the end.
    I say that assuming he's already gone. I am willing to bet $ he doesn't play all 17 games this season and his elite play drops off within 2 years. I was also on board with shipping him out this off season to maximize his trade value and wanted to do so before the draft.

  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    I say that assuming he's already gone. I am willing to bet $ he doesn't play all 17 games this season and his elite play drops off within 2 years. I was also on board with shipping him out this off season to maximize his trade value and wanted to do so before the draft.
    I agree, the cliff is coming. when all is said and done with X and when he eventually retires, his best year of his career would have been 2020. He won't return to 10 INTs next year. I think he will still be in the elite conversation for, at minimum, 2021-2022 season. I also agree, no matter who he plays for, he is not playing 17 games next year.

    But as a GM, would you be willing to sacrifice a 1st rd pick ++ for a CB that probably just had his best year that he will ever have? NO is a hot team right now for X. I think they can get away with giving a 1st rd pick in 2022 because I think they contend for a SB this year with X. but a lot of other SB contending teams just don't have the cap to fit him this year, or to give him the money he wants in coming years. He is elite no doubt, but an elite player comes at a heavy price tag. Grier nailed the Tunsil trade . . . JAC nailed the Ramsey trade, and NYJ nailed the Jamal Adams trade. Some think that it should mirror Adams . . . I am one that thinks a 2022 1st and a 2023 2nd get it done.

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