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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayOnBoard View Post
    I agree, though you might be able to squeeze a late pick with it. I don't think he nets you a 1st though and Miami would no doubt consider that, if it means getting Watson.

    If you could, hypothetically... Would you trade your 3 firsts (3rd + 18 + say... One in the late teens/twenties) and then a first+second next year for Watson?

    I think Miami would jump on board that, especially when they get their QB and still have picks in the second to address WR and RB. For Houston, they get 4 firsts and a second, including a top 3 draft pick. Anyways, probably all moot, Tua likely wouldn't net a first but you never know I suppose. Teams do get desperate for young upside QBs.
    Eek, that #3 and #18 this year makes me queezy. It has nothing to do with Watson, he's an elite QB right now for sure. It has to do with the rest of the team. We have so many holes that need filling. Outside the NYJ, no other team can offer what Miami can for Watson. Why would you bend to HOU's demands of 3-4 1st rd picks ++? If Miami truly wants to make the play for him, don't offer market value, low-bid them, because only NYJ and MIA have the assets to get it done.

    I am already on record stating I want Tua in 2021, but I would offer the following as a take it or leave it option for HOU, no negotiating involved:

    MIA: Deshaun Watson
    HOU: 2021 1st (3), 2021 2nd (50), 2022 1st, 2022 3rd and 2023 2nd OR Tua, 2021 1st (18), 2021 2nd (36), 2022 1st, and 2023 2nd.

    HOU is bent over the barrel right now and there is no way in heck I would want MIA to bail them out by offering market, or above market, value for Watson. Let them sit on Watson for 2021 if they don't like it, and let Watson sit out and lose $20M for 2021. . . that's of no concern to me lol.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeltBruinSoxFan View Post
    Eek, that #3 and #18 this year makes me queezy. It has nothing to do with Watson, he's an elite QB right now for sure. It has to do with the rest of the team. We have so many holes that need filling. Outside the NYJ, no other team can offer what Miami can for Watson. Why would you bend to HOU's demands of 3-4 1st rd picks ++? If Miami truly wants to make the play for him, don't offer market value, low-bid them, because only NYJ and MIA have the assets to get it done.

    I am already on record stating I want Tua in 2021, but I would offer the following as a take it or leave it option for HOU, no negotiating involved:

    MIA: Deshaun Watson
    HOU: 2021 1st (3), 2021 2nd (50), 2022 1st, 2022 3rd and 2023 2nd OR Tua, 2021 1st (18), 2021 2nd (36), 2022 1st, and 2023 2nd.

    HOU is bent over the barrel right now and there is no way in heck I would want MIA to bail them out by offering market, or above market, value for Watson. Let them sit on Watson for 2021 if they don't like it, and let Watson sit out and lose $20M for 2021. . . that's of no concern to me lol.
    You have to understand, it isn't about being bent over the barrel, it isn't like it's Miami or bust for Houston.

    They can get offers from Washington or even the Jets that would surely trump the offer you have on the table. Frankly, if I were Houston (at least on that second offer) id hang up the phone and block Miami's number if that was the starting point. Didn't Mack basically get traded for more than that? If we want to stick with Tua, that's fine and I'd be ok with that too... But there's no way Houston is giving up their franchise, star quarterback for a pair of firsts and a pair of seconds, when neither first is even 3rd overall....

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayOnBoard View Post
    You have to understand, it isn't about being bent over the barrel, it isn't like it's Miami or bust for Houston.

    They can get offers from Washington or even the Jets that would surely trump the offer you have on the table. Frankly, if I were Houston (at least on that second offer) id hang up the phone and block Miami's number if that was the starting point. Didn't Mack basically get traded for more than that? If we want to stick with Tua, that's fine and I'd be ok with that too... But there's no way Houston is giving up their franchise, star quarterback for a pair of firsts and a pair of seconds, when neither first is even 3rd overall....
    The Texans have absolutely zero leverage. That's the point of a take it or leave it that was proposed by Celts. Watson can sit out the year with a "retirement" like Luck did, then become a free agent if he decides to come out of "retirement." The $ isn't really a big deal for Watson because the salary cap projections look to be through the roof int he coming years so a new contract may be even more beneficial for him.

    If a team has offered 3 1sts 2/3 2nds and a QB or more then the Texans would've accepted it. Everyone knows Watson is done with that franchise, including the Texans. The Jets are the only other team that can offer what Miami can. Washington has to offer #19, 2021 2nd and a 2022 1st and 2nd to = #3. So Washington would already need to cough up those extra picks to match Miami's 1 pick. Houston knows they need the Jets or Fins top pick because Watson on either of those teams likely means they'll be picking mid to late teens, if not 20s, in 2022 and beyond.

    So like Celts said I offer a take it or leave it. IF they have a better offer on the table then they'll take it. If not, we have a qb in Tua, who I'm excited to see next year.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    The Texans have absolutely zero leverage. That's the point of a take it or leave it that was proposed by Celts. Watson can sit out the year with a "retirement" like Luck did, then become a free agent if he decides to come out of "retirement." The $ isn't really a big deal for Watson because the salary cap projections look to be through the roof int he coming years so a new contract may be even more beneficial for him.

    If a team has offered 3 1sts 2/3 2nds and a QB or more then the Texans would've accepted it. Everyone knows Watson is done with that franchise, including the Texans. The Jets are the only other team that can offer what Miami can. Washington has to offer #19, 2021 2nd and a 2022 1st and 2nd to = #3. So Washington would already need to cough up those extra picks to match Miami's 1 pick. Houston knows they need the Jets or Fins top pick because Watson on either of those teams likely means they'll be picking mid to late teens, if not 20s, in 2022 and beyond.

    So like Celts said I offer a take it or leave it. IF they have a better offer on the table then they'll take it. If not, we have a qb in Tua, who I'm excited to see next year.
    BINGO good buddy

    Exactly. Let another team sell the farm for Watson. You nailed exactly what I was saying. You offer the best trade proposal you are willing to give up, and then let HOU either take it, or go with a different trade offer.

    Like you said, HOU has zero leverage in this, as they either trade him now to begin their rebuild, or they let him sit the year and get nothing for him this year while having no good picks to start a rebuild. Their cap sucks, and they have no franchise type players on their roster (outside Watson). They are in no-man's land with Watson. I am sure MIA tried making the call to HOU and asking what it would take. Maybe HOU told them 3-4 1sts +++, and maybe Grier hung up the phone and blocked their number lol.

    StayOnBoard, it really is MIA or NYJ for the best possible trade for HOU this year. MIA and NYJ have top 5 picks, and young QBs to trade. Like Pop stated, if they want to take a less valuable trade from another team, they can. They are not going to get market value for Watson. If HOU thinks they will get 4 1sts+++, they are out of their mind. Every team knows Watson is done there. There is nothing that will repair that relationship.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    The Texans have absolutely zero leverage. That's the point of a take it or leave it that was proposed by Celts. Watson can sit out the year with a "retirement" like Luck did, then become a free agent if he decides to come out of "retirement." The $ isn't really a big deal for Watson because the salary cap projections look to be through the roof int he coming years so a new contract may be even more beneficial for him.

    If a team has offered 3 1sts 2/3 2nds and a QB or more then the Texans would've accepted it. Everyone knows Watson is done with that franchise, including the Texans. The Jets are the only other team that can offer what Miami can. Washington has to offer #19, 2021 2nd and a 2022 1st and 2nd to = #3. So Washington would already need to cough up those extra picks to match Miami's 1 pick. Houston knows they need the Jets or Fins top pick because Watson on either of those teams likely means they'll be picking mid to late teens, if not 20s, in 2022 and beyond.

    So like Celts said I offer a take it or leave it. IF they have a better offer on the table then they'll take it. If not, we have a qb in Tua, who I'm excited to see next year.
    Keep thinking they have zero leverage when he's a Jet or in Washington or Carolina, etc.

    They only have zero leverage, if you are comfortable not getting him.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeltBruinSoxFan View Post
    BINGO good buddy

    Exactly. Let another team sell the farm for Watson. You nailed exactly what I was saying. You offer the best trade proposal you are willing to give up, and then let HOU either take it, or go with a different trade offer.

    Like you said, HOU has zero leverage in this, as they either trade him now to begin their rebuild, or they let him sit the year and get nothing for him this year while having no good picks to start a rebuild. Their cap sucks, and they have no franchise type players on their roster (outside Watson). They are in no-man's land with Watson. I am sure MIA tried making the call to HOU and asking what it would take. Maybe HOU told them 3-4 1sts +++, and maybe Grier hung up the phone and blocked their number lol.

    StayOnBoard, it really is MIA or NYJ for the best possible trade for HOU this year. MIA and NYJ have top 5 picks, and young QBs to trade. Like Pop stated, if they want to take a less valuable trade from another team, they can. They are not going to get market value for Watson. If HOU thinks they will get 4 1sts+++, they are out of their mind. Every team knows Watson is done there. There is nothing that will repair that relationship.
    Just because you are comfortable with keeping Tua, doesn't mean the Texans have zero leverage.

    Honestly, to think they are going to let Watson put them over the barrel and they'll trade him for pennies on the dollar is just as foolish as people thinking the Texans well net 7 first rounders or whatever silly proposals we've seen.

    You might be comfortable with Tua and that's cool. As am I. But don't say they don't have leverage, they absolutely do. He literally JUST signed the damn contract. He's playing hardball, they can too.

    Maybe you think Watson is bluffing and is willing to forfeit millions and millions of dollars, but if I'm Houston and my best offers is these 2 firsts and 2 second offers, I'd just laugh and hold my ground.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayOnBoard View Post
    Keep thinking they have zero leverage when he's a Jet or in Washington or Carolina, etc.

    They only have zero leverage, if you are comfortable not getting him.
    Houston has zero leverage over Watson and zero leverage of Miami. Just because Houston may deal Watson to another team doesn't mean they gain leverage. Houston needs Jets and Miami trying to outbid for Watson's services because of their draft capital. Miami has Tua, Jets have Darnold/#2 pick to select a qb. Houston has a QB who refuses to suit up for their franchise ever again. Houston has zero leverage.

  8. #278
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    Just because a team sets a price tag on draft picks needed to acquire a top 5 qb doesn't mean they'll get asking price. Miami has leverage over Houston as they have Tua and are flush with draft capital. Houston's draft capital is poor and they have a top 5 QB who won't suit up for them ever again. If Houston has leverage then Watson will be the starting QB for the Houston Texans in 2021 because remember "he's not available." According to the Texans haha

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    Houston has zero leverage over Watson and zero leverage of Miami. Just because Houston may deal Watson to another team doesn't mean they gain leverage. Houston needs Jets and Miami trying to outbid for Watson's services because of their draft capital. Miami has Tua, Jets have Darnold/#2 pick to select a qb. Houston has a QB who refuses to suit up for their franchise ever again. Houston has zero leverage.
    Just because you keep repeating the same thing over and over, doesn't make it true. They have leverage, it's completely naive to think because Watson is unhappy, Houston just needs to take whatever they can get...

    I won't argue about it anymore, let's see what happens 3 months from now, and then we can talk about it again. I expect I'll see some "wow ...! I can't believe they got that much for him" posts here, but of course this conversation will be never brought up....

  10. #280
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    Looks like I struck a nerve and that wasn't my intention. Please, explain to me how the Texans have leverage over Miami with regards to the Watson situation.

  11. #281
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    Houston will have plenty of suitors for Watson and there will be a bidding war. If you don't want to pay the highest price for Watson that is fine, but I don't see Miami getting Watson with a lowball offer.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    Looks like I struck a nerve and that wasn't my intention. Please, explain to me how the Texans have leverage over Miami with regards to the Watson situation.
    Texans have leverage because there will likely be half a dozen teams bidding on Watson. If your goal is not to get Watson then it won't matter because a low bid is unlikely to net you Watson. If your goal is to get Watson, then the leverage the Texans have is that we will be bidding against a half dozen plus other teams and its more than likely 1 of them will be putting in a substantial offer.

  13. #283
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    Here is a quote from Jeff Darlington regarding Watson.
    “It’s gonna be tough to find a team that’s willing to give up as much as the Bears will right now,” Darlington said, an indication that Chicago might be the highest bidders at this time.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    Looks like I struck a nerve and that wasn't my intention. Please, explain to me how the Texans have leverage over Miami with regards to the Watson situation.
    No nerve, just thinking anyone is getting Watson at some massive discount is silly talk.

    And I didn't say Houston has leverage with Miami, I said that they have leverage. I.e they really don't need to take a half *** offer from some team, just to jettinson him. That's why I kept saying, if I'm Miami I'm comfortable just rolling with Tua.... And I am, in fact I think that's the way to go, kid deserves a chance.

    But make no mistake, Houston has leverage here. He's under contract with their team and far more strained relationships in sports have been salvaged. They'll get good value for him, or they'll keep him. Hell, they might keep him anyways, though I agree that's probably not the most likely outcome.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    Texans have leverage because there will likely be half a dozen teams bidding on Watson. If your goal is not to get Watson then it won't matter because a low bid is unlikely to net you Watson. If your goal is to get Watson, then the leverage the Texans have is that we will be bidding against a half dozen plus other teams and its more than likely 1 of them will be putting in a substantial offer.
    Yes, that too. Half the teams in football could use Watson as an upgrade. There's a massive market for his services.

    Thinking you'll be getting him for some scrub package, I'm sorry, it's just not reality.

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