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  1. #106
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    not typing on my phone for once, so can add some context to my posts.

    D-Lo is easily better than Wiggins, for various reasons. First, he just is. Second, he isn't being force fed down our throats as a cornerstone or being offered a contract from us, he was already given one so it's more palatable to take from that perspective (remember, we all *****ed, with me leading the charge, about this team was going to max Wiggins and they shouldn't, yet they did). D-Lo is not a very good player, but he is better than league average, which Wiggins isn't. We all brought up the pick as a huge ouch, but were hoping that pick would be in the 8-14 range, and it clearly won't be. It would be SO Wolves luck to land the #4 pick in a stud draft, dropping 2-3 spots and having to give up that pick.

    D-Lo is a ball hog, that somehow becomes even less efficient, and less engaged, without the ball. Meaning, unless he dribbles the air out of the ball and works his angles, he may be worse, and care less. He doesn't guard anyone with consistency. Our offense in the 4th quarter, especially late, drops off a cliff on a per possession basis for 2 reasons- 1) D-Lo goes isolation, and unless your name is LeBron, Harden, Durant, or a few others, that means bad things for your team. 2) Most NBA teams that are worth a crap don't play engaged until late in the 4th, then all of a sudden their defense picks up, their offensive sets become crisp, and they identify matchup advantages. Our coaching staff has literally no idea what it's doing. A case in point was the other night against Toronto. After the Raps made a bucket with under 30 seconds to go, instead of taking a timeout to advance the ball up the floor we let an inbounds pass go to Beasley, who is trapped because the baseline now acts as a 3rd defender. He turns it over. Beasley should never have been in that position. I can offer 100 of these examples, and don't even get me started over rotations. Saunders is in over his head.

    Looking at the successful 5 man lineups that include D-Lo, you have to go all the way down to his 7th, and 10th combinations before positive outcomes show. Why? Well he hasn't played with Towns enough obviously, and more importantly, units led by D-Lo don't win. This is a historical trend with him. They don't look as putrid as Wiggins unit measures, but they are bad none the less.

    Edwards shows the ability to be a scoring champ, and be an incredible scoring force. If you don't see that, not sure what to tell you. His floor at this point is Lavine. Ceiling would be Wade. McDaniels, at 20, rookie, and skinny as ****, has shown the ability to keep distance closed on his man, bother the shot, stay at home on fakes, and is now being asked to guard great players. His defensive promise is evident, and he will also be a floor spacer and rim finisher. Beasley is a nice scoring guard, who doesn't do much else, but we don't need him to ideally. Naz is a perfect trade chip in 3 years. So yes, me, one of the most negative, and realistic fans this board has over the past 13 years, sees a glimmer of hope.

    Things that need to happen:
    1. Saunders fired at year end
    2. Ditch Rubio
    3. Find more shooting
    4. Get a real PG. If we keep our pick, draft Suggs and figure it out. If not, keep looking to draft/develop, or widdle space down prior to Edwards/McDaniels extensions to sign one.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  2. #107
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    I know we've all fallen for it before, but I think we're in a far, far better spot than this time last year (just before the deadline).

    We had Towns, Wiggins and Teague and our first round pick Culver looked like a G-Leaguer.

    Fast forward 12-odd months, and even if we do have to start again/Towns wants out, we at least have some exciting pieces. Ant could be anything, McDaniels is the ideal new-age PF, Reid & McLaughlin can be very good backups (at least), Nowell looks like he could be that shooter/instant offence off the bench and Vanderbilt looks like a perfect athletic/high guy off the bench. Beasley is really only a shooter/scorer, but that's okay - you need them. Ideally I'd have him come in off the bench, with Ant at the 2 and a bigger/stronger vet manning the 3.

    Rosas has made his mistakes, but we are looking a lot better. I don't think we have one contract that would be considered worse than average (maybe Juancho) - certainly nothing unmovable.

    If we want to make/win in the playoffs, we need another vet on the wing (I know we're sort of stacked there, but it's also our weakest position in terms of talent) and probably get rid of Ryan. I think Derrick Jones Jr would have been a great fit (even though he's not really a 'vet'). Marcus Smart would again be nice, but I don't think we have the pieces.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    Let's be honest though, this pick was not expected to be anywhere close to a top 3 pick(which it will not even if we have the worst record - we all know we are getting #4), so it was not a bad trade. Nobody expected KAT and D'lo to only play 5 games together at this point and unfortunately with the latest news on Russell, that's not changing anytime soon. Sorry for bundling you with Hawk, I guess I misremembered the previous few posts. All I want to say is that while I am not a huge fan of D'lo(I do like watching him play) he is better than people here give him credit for. His RPM means nothing considering this teams record this season. There are 5 blowouts in which he is averaging -26.5 average(LAL,LAC,WASH[one bad one],DEN, Philly). The rest of the games he has played in, he is a respectable -4.4, once again considering this teams situations and the 10 different starting lineups he has had to play in. Once again, is he worth the money he is getting paid - no. Does he bring more value to team than Wiggins(regardless of the team) - absolutely. Wiggins fn sucks. He is having his worst year statistically if you discard RPM and P/M in general because Curry is carrying him.
    As far as Edwards goes, he is already my second favorite NBA player behind the underrated(and wrongfully traded) Mr. Big Shot aka Defier of Gravity aka Zach Attack - Zachary Lavine. I will go out on a limb and say if he stays healthy he may have even higher of a ceiling than Zach. I still don't get the "weak draft" label for this past draft. It definitely looks to me it will produce more all-stars and high level starters/role players than last year.
    I pointed out before the year it was risky trading the pick, it might not have been expected to be top 3 but top 10 seemed likely still. The trade was risky because of the value it could give up so it's more of a wait and see than anything. I think there is a chance we end up as "losers" though and Hawk gets to some of the reasoning with Russell. I do think he is better than Wiggins but RPM takes into account teammates, opponents etc. it isn't just a +/-. It isn't just RPM I used it as a basic barometer of impact but his lack of defense and the issues with his offensive style Hawk gets at make him a slightly above average player not too much more. I mean in todays nba where everyone even guys like Wiggins get paid ok but in reality he is a bit expensive for his overall impact. Wiggins isn't great but he is actually kinda fitting a role in GS, their fans are not nearly as down on him as we were (many even like him). Russell is better but it's more of an minor bump up than massive jump, he is above average but not great or anything impact wise. Russel's role on this team when we have KAT and a budding Edwards who should have the ball a ton along with Beasley offensively is a bit diminished. That he is weak defensively which is our teams weakness even without him hurts even more. The trade likely comes down to the pick, if it were our 22 1st unprotected I would consider the trade a win rn based on what I have seen (and us having time to finish constructing the roster properly). Keeping that pick is important and it was a gamble including it so we will see on that.

    I agree with you. Edwards looks amazing so far as do Ball and Wiseman. It also has the high level starters/role players type too with some have potential to be all stars (Patrick Williams? Haliburton?). I really like McDaniel's given our needs too, he may not be all star type be he can space/finish with some ability to handle it while being a defensive stud and seemingly and effort guy too. This draft looks much better than it was touted to be, I really wish we had also grabbed Bey still too I think he has looked good as well.

  4. #109
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    Edwards does not look amazing. He has shown some, but overall has played like trash.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    Edwards does not look amazing. He has shown some, but overall has played like trash.
    I meant relatively and within context, most rookies do "play like trash" as opposed to being all stars but that isn't how you evaluate them. The abilities they show are more important when they are 19 and just entering the league and he has done that.

    This was in describing the current draft class as better than expected and his play being great is part of that. Wiseman has "played like trash" and there has been plenty of raving of him too in similar fashion. It's because of the skills he has shown not because he is an all star that isn't how it works with rookies in the NBA.

  6. #111
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    It's very rare that rookies show positive win metrics. Like MNGoph said, you look for specific skills and traits. Edwards has scoring machine written all over him. If he can defend, and control his shot selection, and instead of getting fancy on his drive and just power into contact and live at the line, he will be a star.

  7. #112
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    So how many games have we won without Russell in the lineup?!? Just saying...
    Last edited by Oefarmy2005; 03-01-2021 at 02:12 PM.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    All of these posts by you and Hawk are typical Minnesota fan fare. OMG, I hate Wiggins and I am so glad we traded him(even with the pick) for D'lo. D'lo is so clutch(circa last season). I hate D'lo, he is a black hole. I love our rookies they have all-star potential. NEXT YEAR: Man Edwards and McDaniels have regressed but look at player X(Lamelo, Haliburton, Etc). Yada, yada, yada. You guys have to even it out a bit. D'lo is nowhere as bad as you make him out to be - he is a good player. How many starting PGs in the league today you would say are looking to create(or are effective at it) for others? 5-7 out of 30? His brand of basketball is 5x more entertaining to watch than whatever Wiggins did or still does. Our rookies have shown flashes, and I really like them both, but they don't move the needle much for at least the next year or two. Man, as far as "making the playoffs a couple of times." How many teams actually have a realistic chance to win a chip every year? 2-3, max? I'll take "make the playoffs a couple of times" at this point.

    Seriously, it's a short list of PGs/lead guards I would take over D'lo:
    Curry, Dame, Doncic, Harden, Young, Kyrie(even though you guys would hate him even more) - these guys are MVP caliber players.
    Holliday, Fox, Morant, maybe Dejounte Murray and Melo are the other 3-5 I'd take over him, that it, literally. 10-11 players, more than half of whom are MVP caliber lead guards. Hell, I wouldn't take Simmons over him, at this point.
    Man I would trade DLO for Ben Simmons so fast.

  9. #114
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    So I guess with that loss to the Suns, the wolves have the worst career winning pct in American team sports history.

    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/...erican-sports/

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Man I would trade DLO for Ben Simmons so fast.
    I don't mean I wouldn't trade him for Simmons in a vaccum, but considering we already suck at shooting, adding Simmons as another major minute guy would mean we are scoring like 95 PPG.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  11. #116
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    I mean, Simmons is exponentially better than Russell, that isn't even a question...

    ANyways, when will we understand that perhaps running a high octane 3 point barrage offense only works when you have, ya know, 3 point shooters? I am so sick of watching Edwards or McDaniels jack 3's, instead of attacking the rim. Why is Naz shooting 3's? What the hell are we doing?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I mean, Simmons is exponentially better than Russell, that isn't even a question...

    ANyways, when will we understand that perhaps running a high octane 3 point barrage offense only works when you have, ya know, 3 point shooters? I am so sick of watching Edwards or McDaniels jack 3's, instead of attacking the rim. Why is Naz shooting 3's? What the hell are we doing?
    We are being the Wolves and wining 15 games/season, is what we are doing...


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    We are being the Wolves and wining 15 games/season, is what we are doing...
    Ya it's rough. I think Towns then Dlo and now Beasley too being out plays a part but not having the pick if it is outside of top 3 makes this hurt a lot more. Also watching Ball have a killer year while we potentially didn't take him due to "fit" after our move Dlo etc. only makes it more frustrating. I like Edwards and think he has high potential but Lamelo looks like a possible superstar with what has been shown.

    I hope we have a great/lucky offseason so some of these questions don't come back to bite us.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 03-07-2021 at 02:02 AM.

  14. #119
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    I was a huge proponent of taking Melo 1st overall, however, I would say I've seen enough from Edwards to say he is going to be the real deal at some point in his career(hopefully on the Timberwolves, but likely not).


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    I was a huge proponent of taking Melo 1st overall, however, I would say I've seen enough from Edwards to say he is going to be the real deal at some point in his career(hopefully on the Timberwolves, but likely not).
    I would agree, Edwards will be something in this league. Not sure what that is yet but he will be a useful player, I don't think Rosas made a mistake given what the plan at that time was. Would have liked to make a run at a third star with that pick via trade but it's not as easy it sounds. It seems clear to me that Rosas has the rest of this year and next season to really show that the plan is producing a clear result. Will be interesting to see if he tries something at the deadline since this offseason we may be without a pick and no chance at high-tier FAs.

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