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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    I seriously put everyone on the trade block. Trade everyone accept edwards and make him the starting 2 and let him be free. Trade Kat/Russell/Beasley/filler for 10 first round draft picks over the next 4 years and run it back again. Get a coach, get a good GM, and tank for the next three seasons with 3 first round picks a year.
    I agree with Twolves88. I think Beasley is very good considering the money. He is a 3pt machine. I would also keep Naz, at least for the next few years until his very favorable contact is up(he is ganna cost a ton at that point).


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  2. #92
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    Great to see KAT out there! Now let's just win a close game once in a whle.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    Great to see KAT out there! Now let's just win a close game once in a whle.
    Just lose out and let our young team grow. Keep that top 3 pick.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    Just lose out and let our young team grow. Keep that top 3 pick.
    It really sucks our future is tied up in lotto odds basically lol. I noted it before the year too but trading that pick could be costly, if we miss out on the top 3 when lotto hits it means we are giving like a 4-6 pick away.

    I feel like if we do add a top 3 talent though this team has a brighter future than we have in a long time. Edwards look like he could develop into a star. Mcdaniels looks like he could end up as that defensive energy 4 we have been calling for and he can also space the floor etc. on offense too. The ability to add another potential high end talent to that then look at our core of young vets (Russell/Beasley/Towns) is a lot to build from. Naz, Nowell, Jmac and maybe like Culver could also be seen as young talent we wanna retain too but they are likely not going to be starters for us it seems. Rubio/Juancho/Layman/Okogie can all be moved easily imo, I would add picks this offseason as well if we can bring in one last talent should we keep our pick.

    I would like to see Russell/Beasley/Edwards/Mcdaniels/Towns lineup get a lot of playing time when we finally have everyone back healthy. A young stud top 3 pick AND a trade with other pieces for another good piece as well added to those 5 and our other young role players has me intrigued.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    Just lose out and let our young team grow. Keep that top 3 pick.
    It would make sense with the old lottery odds to tank, with the new ones, no so much. I think that pick is as good as gone, so if we can make it a worse pick, I am all for it. Let's win games.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
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    c) they're - short for "they are"

  6. #96
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    Last night was a fun look at how KAT pick and roll game can work with good players. Anthony Edwards looked pretty good running it with him and I think DLO can too. Should open things up a bit on offense. I look back at the six games they blew after having a win prob of like >75, with KAT they probably win at least 3-4 of those just by being able to run that pNr action with him and DLO or Edwards. In those games, they just couldn't get a quality shot off to stop the defensive bleeding.

    I had been on the train of letting Ryan get a healthy 50 games of DLO and KAT before deciding on if he should be fired but I'm tightening that up to just KAT. If he has KAT and most of the other guys are healthy, they should be capable of at least winning 40% of their games.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    Once again, D'lo isn't the problem. He was able to have huge nights for his last two teams because they actually ran plays. Not having KAT and Saunders being a flipping place holder is the problem. I hate eating Crow, but Okogie is a bum. I think Culver is redeemable, but Okogie is basically an 11th guy off the bench when everyone else is in foul trouble and you need some D. I think we lucked out in this draft. I know Edwards is not putting up Melo/Haliburton numbers because of our situation, but the guy looks very, very promising. Honestly, if I could pin this season on three people it would be KAT, Saunders and Rubio in that order. I hate all the D'lo complaints when Rubio has been ridiculously awful(once again due to Saunders).
    I may as well use this post for my thoughts:

    D-Lo is not a player we want if we are developing talent that needs the ball. Sorry.

    Edwards has league scoring champ potential. He should have the ball in his hands a LOT, and D-Lo prevents that. Beasley is constantly ignored down the stretch, and much of that has had to do with D-Lo dribbling the air out of the ball. Using isolation late in games is just not smart, unless you have LeBron, Harden, etc. D-Lo is not those guys, and he just dribbles, dribbles, dribbles. Can't have it.

    McDaniels, is beyond impressive defensively for a 20 year old, skinny rookie. He has Shawn Marion like defensive potential.

    I have a lot of hope for this team, in that we actually have 2 rookies that I truly believe, if developed correctly, could have huge potential. Towns is a given, but I really like Beasley and what he brings as well (CJ McCollum-like).

    We clearly need a real PG, one that looks to create for others first, score second, as we obviously have our star SG of the future in Edwards, imho.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    I agree with Twolves88. I think Beasley is very good considering the money. He is a 3pt machine. I would also keep Naz, at least for the next few years until his very favorable contact is up(he is ganna cost a ton at that point).
    Yeah Naz makes nothing, so trading him fetches you meh right now. At some point, we trade him for help, or hell, trade Towns for the big haul and start Naz.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    It really sucks our future is tied up in lotto odds basically lol. I noted it before the year too but trading that pick could be costly, if we miss out on the top 3 when lotto hits it means we are giving like a 4-6 pick away.

    I feel like if we do add a top 3 talent though this team has a brighter future than we have in a long time. Edwards look like he could develop into a star. Mcdaniels looks like he could end up as that defensive energy 4 we have been calling for and he can also space the floor etc. on offense too. The ability to add another potential high end talent to that then look at our core of young vets (Russell/Beasley/Towns) is a lot to build from. Naz, Nowell, Jmac and maybe like Culver could also be seen as young talent we wanna retain too but they are likely not going to be starters for us it seems. Rubio/Juancho/Layman/Okogie can all be moved easily imo, I would add picks this offseason as well if we can bring in one last talent should we keep our pick.

    I would like to see Russell/Beasley/Edwards/Mcdaniels/Towns lineup get a lot of playing time when we finally have everyone back healthy. A young stud top 3 pick AND a trade with other pieces for another good piece as well added to those 5 and our other young role players has me intrigued.
    landing a top 3 pick in this years draft would push us straight into team of the future material, for sure. I like our young guys without an additional pick, but Suggs, or any other top 3 talent, assures it basically. Fingers crossed man...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  10. #100
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    Timberwolves Dec/Jan game thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    landing a top 3 pick in this years draft would push us straight into team of the future material, for sure. I like our young guys without an additional pick, but Suggs, or any other top 3 talent, assures it basically. Fingers crossed man...
    Ya keeping the pick feels like the difference between team of the future and can we make the playoffs a couple times with our core. Thatís why I noted the pick before the season and how critical that might be (if we lose it thatís a tough set back for future outlook).

    The outlook will be very bright if we get to add another top pick. Edwards and mcdaniels developing is also obviously key but what a great start for them. Culver is still a high pick with potential he has flashed as well even if most of us are probably a bit down at this point (with fair reason to be).


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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Ya keeping the pick feels like the difference between team of the future and can we make the playoffs a couple times with our core. Thatís why I noted the pick before the season and how critical that might be (if we lose it thatís a tough set back for future outlook).

    The outlook will be very bright if we get to add another top pick. Edwards and mcdaniels developing is also obviously key but what a great start for them. Culver is still a high pick with potential he has flashed as well even if most of us are probably a bit down at this point (with fair reason to be).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    All of these posts by you and Hawk are typical Minnesota fan fare. OMG, I hate Wiggins and I am so glad we traded him(even with the pick) for D'lo. D'lo is so clutch(circa last season). I hate D'lo, he is a black hole. I love our rookies they have all-star potential. NEXT YEAR: Man Edwards and McDaniels have regressed but look at player X(Lamelo, Haliburton, Etc). Yada, yada, yada. You guys have to even it out a bit. D'lo is nowhere as bad as you make him out to be - he is a good player. How many starting PGs in the league today you would say are looking to create(or are effective at it) for others? 5-7 out of 30? His brand of basketball is 5x more entertaining to watch than whatever Wiggins did or still does. Our rookies have shown flashes, and I really like them both, but they don't move the needle much for at least the next year or two. Man, as far as "making the playoffs a couple of times." How many teams actually have a realistic chance to win a chip every year? 2-3, max? I'll take "make the playoffs a couple of times" at this point.

    Seriously, it's a short list of PGs/lead guards I would take over D'lo:
    Curry, Dame, Doncic, Harden, Young, Kyrie(even though you guys would hate him even more) - these guys are MVP caliber players.
    Holliday, Fox, Morant, maybe Dejounte Murray and Melo are the other 3-5 I'd take over him, that it, literally. 10-11 players, more than half of whom are MVP caliber lead guards. Hell, I wouldn't take Simmons over him, at this point.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    All of these posts by you and Hawk are typical Minnesota fan fare. OMG, I hate Wiggins and I am so glad we traded him(even with the pick) for D'lo. D'lo is so clutch(circa last season). I hate D'lo, he is a black hole. I love our rookies they have all-star potential. NEXT YEAR: Man Edwards and McDaniels have regressed but look at player X(Lamelo, Haliburton, Etc). Yada, yada, yada. You guys have to even it out a bit. D'lo is nowhere as bad as you make him out to be - he is a good player. How many starting PGs in the league today you would say are looking to create(or are effective at it) for others? 5-7 out of 30? His brand of basketball is 5x more entertaining to watch than whatever Wiggins did or still does. Our rookies have shown flashes, and I really like them both, but they don't move the needle much for at least the next year or two. Man, as far as "making the playoffs a couple of times." How many teams actually have a realistic chance to win a chip every year? 2-3, max? I'll take "make the playoffs a couple of times" at this point.

    Seriously, it's a short list of PGs/lead guards I would take over D'lo:
    Curry, Dame, Doncic, Harden, Young, Kyrie(even though you guys would hate him even more) - these guys are MVP caliber players.
    Holliday, Fox, Morant, maybe Dejounte Murray and Melo are the other 3-5 I'd take over him, that it, literally. 10-11 players, more than half of whom are MVP caliber lead guards. Hell, I wouldn't take Simmons over him, at this point.
    D-Lo is a ballhog, and and limits others contributions. He doesn't guard anyone. I made it very clear anything is better than masquerading Wiggins as a cornerstone. But that doesn't mean I can't point out that our offense goes to **** late when Dlo starts going iso. If he buys into a role where he can play off the ball more, great. His off ball numbers aren't good, but so be it.

    Edwards shows massive scoring/playmaking potential. McDaniels is already our 2nd best defender behind Okogie, who is a complete liability offensively. McDaniels is doing it at 20, as a rookie. That is a great sign. These 2 rookies show more potential than any rookies we have had in a long, long time. Reid is even a nice piece. As is Nowell as a bench scorer.

    Rubio sucks. Dlo is not a perennial playoff PG unless he gives the ball up and guards someone. Those are facts. We need an upgrade at PG.

    Do things change? Yep. Could both rookies stall out? Yep. But both show skillset potential coveted in the current league.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    All of these posts by you and Hawk are typical Minnesota fan fare. OMG, I hate Wiggins and I am so glad we traded him(even with the pick) for D'lo. D'lo is so clutch(circa last season). I hate D'lo, he is a black hole. I love our rookies they have all-star potential. NEXT YEAR: Man Edwards and McDaniels have regressed but look at player X(Lamelo, Haliburton, Etc). Yada, yada, yada. You guys have to even it out a bit. D'lo is nowhere as bad as you make him out to be - he is a good player. How many starting PGs in the league today you would say are looking to create(or are effective at it) for others? 5-7 out of 30? His brand of basketball is 5x more entertaining to watch than whatever Wiggins did or still does. Our rookies have shown flashes, and I really like them both, but they don't move the needle much for at least the next year or two. Man, as far as "making the playoffs a couple of times." How many teams actually have a realistic chance to win a chip every year? 2-3, max? I'll take "make the playoffs a couple of times" at this point.

    Seriously, it's a short list of PGs/lead guards I would take over D'lo:
    Curry, Dame, Doncic, Harden, Young, Kyrie(even though you guys would hate him even more) - these guys are MVP caliber players.
    Holliday, Fox, Morant, maybe Dejounte Murray and Melo are the other 3-5 I'd take over him, that it, literally. 10-11 players, more than half of whom are MVP caliber lead guards. Hell, I wouldn't take Simmons over him, at this point.
    What in the world? I don't think plenty nor did I of what you say and yes liking this years rookies is true but I don't every year I am often critical. I wasn't happy with Culvers play and still am not for example (and I even noted people are likely down on him and fairly so but he didn't look good last year either, I base it on how it looks on the court). I don't think saying Edwards has all star potential is that crazy. Mcdaniels has looked very good defensively with some offensive game too in a way we sorely need from someone with length (hopefully he adds some muscle next). My takes are often against the general typical posters here, I was against the rubio move and wanted Bey/Precious. Back when it was Thibs I said the move for Butler wouldn't look great down the road (for multiple reasons, Lavine being better than Wiggins an obvious one to me). I can go on and on but if I say something it is because it's my general belief.

    I didn't mention Dlo at all but I think it seems like we aren't too far off, I think you may overrate him a bit though. As of right now I think like Lowry better, I am not sure what you mean by take though if you mean longer term overall ok he has a bit more value there and I would agree. I'm assuming that's what you meant given you naming young guys. Jamal Murray is close overall he is a bit down this year. Rozier if just looking at this year has been close too. I would take Simmons though so I am guessing you have all below him. When you say lead guard I assume you just mean like the ones playing PG because you could add Mccollum or Beal or Booker etc. if not... So depending on the criteria you can label him a number but overall there are tons more names to consider as close then add contracts etc. and his RPM is below Wiggins this year who was in the trade. A lot of factors overall go into ranking or judging him and it depends in what way you mean. I think Beasley has arguably been more impressive so far comparatively especially given the cheaper contract. Hawk gets into it but his defense isn't great and he isn't really the type of lead guard for the team he is more of a get his type. He can be that type of PG in spurts but he isn't gonna create for others all game too often.

    Russell is good but that pick could have some pretty big value and the rookies we have now are better than they normally are. That's not just an I agree with MN that is a clear as day if you have watched Edwards to Culver last year or Okogie before etc. he is just on a different level than normal for us. Make the playoffs a couple of times isn't the end of the world but it also isn't that next level without something else, if we get the pick that could be it if we hit again. That's just pointing out how it is, I am not bashing this team in saying it I am also not going to overrate what we have. I don't think it's as bad as the record, we need to see these guys healthy but ya I think there are normally a handful of contenders over a couple years lets say and we could be in that if things go very good for us this offseason (that is an elite category which is the entire point of saying it, you need things to have gone right). Or we could lose the pick and while Russell is solid it leaves us lacking in ability to actually ever reach that point (if we pick high the following year well then maybe the rookies did regress and Towns isn't what we thought etc. which is a bigger issue). They need to show progress but basing it on what the young guys have shown it's promising and we have the talent of Russell/Beasley/Towns too I had noted in a previous post where I called for the 5 to share the court a ton, it's not a bad spot. I wasn't criticizing that so much as noting what an extra hit with a top 3 pick would mean on top of it, it's a huge difference in where this team can go hitting on that.

  14. #104
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    Let's be honest though, this pick was not expected to be anywhere close to a top 3 pick(which it will not even if we have the worst record - we all know we are getting #4), so it was not a bad trade. Nobody expected KAT and D'lo to only play 5 games together at this point and unfortunately with the latest news on Russell, that's not changing anytime soon. Sorry for bundling you with Hawk, I guess I misremembered the previous few posts. All I want to say is that while I am not a huge fan of D'lo(I do like watching him play) he is better than people here give him credit for. His RPM means nothing considering this teams record this season. There are 5 blowouts in which he is averaging -26.5 average(LAL,LAC,WASH[one bad one],DEN, Philly). The rest of the games he has played in, he is a respectable -4.4, once again considering this teams situations and the 10 different starting lineups he has had to play in. Once again, is he worth the money he is getting paid - no. Does he bring more value to team than Wiggins(regardless of the team) - absolutely. Wiggins fn sucks. He is having his worst year statistically if you discard RPM and P/M in general because Curry is carrying him.
    As far as Edwards goes, he is already my second favorite NBA player behind the underrated(and wrongfully traded) Mr. Big Shot aka Defier of Gravity aka Zach Attack - Zachary Lavine. I will go out on a limb and say if he stays healthy he may have even higher of a ceiling than Zach. I still don't get the "weak draft" label for this past draft. It definitely looks to me it will produce more all-stars and high level starters/role players than last year.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    Let's be honest though, this pick was not expected to be anywhere close to a top 3 pick(which it will not even if we have the worst record - we all know we are getting #4), so it was not a bad trade. Nobody expected KAT and D'lo to only play 5 games together at this point and unfortunately with the latest news on Russell, that's not changing anytime soon. Sorry for bundling you with Hawk, I guess I misremembered the previous few posts. All I want to say is that while I am not a huge fan of D'lo(I do like watching him play) he is better than people here give him credit for. His RPM means nothing considering this teams record this season. There are 5 blowouts in which he is averaging -26.5 average(LAL,LAC,WASH[one bad one],DEN, Philly). The rest of the games he has played in, he is a respectable -4.4, once again considering this teams situations and the 10 different starting lineups he has had to play in. Once again, is he worth the money he is getting paid - no. Does he bring more value to team than Wiggins(regardless of the team) - absolutely. Wiggins fn sucks. He is having his worst year statistically if you discard RPM and P/M in general because Curry is carrying him.
    As far as Edwards goes, he is already my second favorite NBA player behind the underrated(and wrongfully traded) Mr. Big Shot aka Defier of Gravity aka Zach Attack - Zachary Lavine. I will go out on a limb and say if he stays healthy he may have even higher of a ceiling than Zach. I still don't get the "weak draft" label for this past draft. It definitely looks to me it will produce more all-stars and high level starters/role players than last year.
    Trading away trash and getting an upgrade is nice, but the upgrade isn't very good. He just isn't. And his style of play is painful and not.going to work unless he figures out how to.play off the ball.

    Dude, I was almost done with this team. Wiggins is gone, and we have a rookie that shows Wade-like ability. As well as another rookie who appears to be the ideal defender in todays game. Beasley and Naz are nice as well. Meaning, we have a little hope.

    We don't agree on items at times, and I don't have the energy to get into a lenghtly debate with numbers. You know I understand stats, so anything you post I am mostly aware of. And I still have my opinions.

    Russell is not the guy. He isn't.

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